Buying Port at Auction

[Al B.]

I saw Derek's note on the "What's Your Go To Port" thread and thought it deserved a thread all of its own.

I don't buy anything like as much port (or other wines) at auction these days as I used to, so I happily defer to Stuart or Tom to give a more up to date view of the UK auction market. I've never bought at auction in the US so I just can't comment there.

In my experience, there are essentially two types of auction - virtual and physical - and two ways to buy - in person or as an absentee.

Virtual auctions are normally internet based. The classic example is eBay...but be REAL careful if you buy wine through eBay as you just don't know how it has been stored. I sometimes watch a bottle of old port as it is auctioned through eBay and shake my head in bemusement as I see people bidding higher than I could buy the wine at retail.

There are a couple of wine auction sites that got a good write-up in Wine Magazine last issue. These are Uvine and WineBid. According to the article, both check out the provenance and condition of the wine before accepting it for auction with wine under auction generally being held in store in the UK (so that you can be sure that you will get it if your bid wins - it won't have been stored there since being shipped). As with eBay, you register as a user and can then enter a bid against the wine you want to buy. If your bid is the highest and reaches the minimum set buy the seller (if any) then you pay your money and get your wine. (You also have to pay commission to the auction house and may have to pay VAT and duty if the wine you buy is stored in bond.)

Similar sort of thing at the physical auctions. There are three main auction houses in London who organise wine sales (Sotheby's, Christie's and Bonham's) plus lots of smaller regional houses who also auction wine. There is likely to be someone in the Doncaster area who organises a once or twice a year auction that includes wine collections from local residents. The London houses put their catalogues on the web and you can browse through those to see if there is anything that interests you. To make a bid in person, you turn up at the auction house in London and register to bid. Once registered you sit patiently in the auction room until the lots that you want are offered. You then wave your hand around when you want to make a bid while the auctioneer calls out the amount of the bids. If your bid is the highest, then you win the wine - pay the auction house the value of your bid plus their commission (plus VAT and duty, if required) and your wine will be delivered. If actually being there is just too much hassle, then you can make an absentee bid and simply fax / email / telephone / fill in the web form and tell the auction house how much you are prepared to pay at most for the wine. If your maximum is higher than anyone else's then you will win the wine for a bid that is slightly higher than the second highest bid (ie. you won't pay your maximum, just enough to beat the second place bidder).

But actually being there is (a) a bit of fun and (b) can give you the opportunity to taste some of the wines that are up for auction.

Alex

[Derek T.]

Alex,

I totally agree on the Ebay warning. I have bought bottles from Ebay that have been good value but, like you, cannot see sense in paying full or higher than market value for something that is unlikely to have been properly stored. Most of what I have bought through Ebay have been curiosity bottles that I like to have in my collection. Only geeks like me would be interested in these so I tend to get them fairly cheap. An example of this is a Taylors 20 yr old bottled in 1973 that I picked-up for £15. Probably undrinkable but would look nice in a port museum 8)

One thing I have found Ebay useful for is finding retailers across Europe, Germany in particular. Last year I found a retailer there through Ebay selling Fonseca 2000 at 50 Euro a bottle including tax 8)

I have used Uvine twice and have been please both times. First was 6 Vesuvio 96 at £110 plus tax & commission and the other was 6 x Graham's 85 - can't remember price but it was certainly less than retail.

I tried using christies.com yesterday and got frustrated as I couldn't seem to find any way of bidding on the next auction - perhaps it isn't available yet

Derek

[Stuart Chatfield]

I tried using christies.com yesterday and got frustrated as I couldn't seem to find any way of bidding on the next auction - perhaps it isn't available yet

The pdf catalogue on the Wine Dept. page and the bidding bit under the "buying" drop down menu are frustratingly out of synch. Sometimes they "go live" at days about 7 days apart. Sometimes one is still missing just days before the sale. A few times I've complained and a few hours later got an email telling me "it is there, honest" - then I check the site and it is . I suspect that they are done by two different departments and they just forget until a customer like me tells them.

However, I can tell you that the pdf one, printed out, is much easier on the eyes. Decide what you want from that and then check back daily until the bidding bit is there. However, as I've said, you do need to register your bank details first.

[DavidL]

Another large UK auctioneer worth checking is Straker Chadwicks in Abergavenny, who hold 1000-lot wine sales alternate months. Catalogues and bidding forms are online from about two weeks in advance.

They are by far the biggest provincial wine auctioneers in the UK, charge lower commissions than the London firms and are generally reliable in my experience. (I've no connection - obviously!)

I always like to check bottles physically whenever I can as no auctioneer's descriptions are totally reliable.

[Roy Hersh]

While in Portugal recently, a few family members sat around a table asking me questions about this website and newsletter and were most interested in the demographics. I had to admit that there were more Europeans on the FORUM but far more Americans (60%) on the newsletter mailing list.

So when I discuss wines here, I have to be sharp enough to pay attention to what is going on in the UK Port market as well as other parts of Europe. The auction situations are so very different over in London and I do pay attention somewhat, but not like I do here obviously. The same goes for the UK retailers. I am dialed into a dozen top notch retaielrs of Port in the UK but still pay more attention to the US retailers.

The debate about auctions is a good one. Winebid.com and a few other virtual wine auctions here do a good job. Winecommune.com is very popular but no better than the UK version of buying wine at Ebay, which if I am not mistaken ... no longer takes place here in the USA. Anyway, I am very reluctant to buy ANY wines anymore at auction, though find the pricing fun to watch ... like the stockmarket.

Too much of the best Ports, rare and oldies from pre-1948, as well as Bordeaux from pre-1990 wind up at these auctions looking good, but with the owners dumping poorly stored bottles at auction. When a single bottle of 1945 Taylor is sent to auction and it looks great, and a devious person looking to sell it knows that it was cooked but not enough for any cork/capsule/leakage issues to SHOW physcially ... this bottle will wind up disappointing the buyer down the road, with NO recourse. SO MANY 15-40 year old Bordeaux show poorly at tastings and when I ask the person who brought them, where they bought them from ... more often than not, "at xyz auction house" is the response. Buy from retailers you trust that get their bottles from either ex-cellars, or from individuals they KNOW and have dealt with for years. Otherwise, it is a crapshoot at best, and most of us open these SPECIAL BOTTLES down the road, at a very good offline event and feel cheated when the bottle performs poorly.

CAVEAT EMPTOR is not good enough for me. I have learned my lesson and am willing to pay a bit more for "guaranteed provenance." For old and rare bottles, I will ask a retailer or private individual for a series of digital pictures if the bottle is over $200. Again, physical appearance is only one small indicator. Ask lots of questions, it really is the best way to find great bottles. What is $10-40 more per bottle 5 or 10 years down the road, or even tomorrow night if you open the WOTN at your next offline? 8)

By the way Derek, the 2000 Fonseca was selling here in the USA for $42.95 in USD for over a week and can now be found for $53 in a number of spots as well. Talk about bargains!

[Stuart Chatfield]

I agree with Roy's point. With a few exceptions, at auction, I try to stick to whole boxed cases from parcel lots of known provenance or from bonded warehouses.


Plus bottles found floating in flood water in the cellars of a Cambridge college.