PLANNING A HARVEST TOUR FOR UK & EU GUESTS

[Roy Hersh]

There are many great European Port lovers who post and lurk here and I would like to create a trip for them. Instead of an upscale, high priced tour ... this would be a 3 day, either 3 or 4 night stint, touching off in Gaia and heading up to the Douro and back or vice versa.

European/UK guests would have an easier/faster time getting to Portgual than Americans and the added benefit of not having to go through jet lag, so they could "hit the ground running."

Firm dates are not in place but likely it would be the week after our current Harvest Tour which is full, although we are considering adding a 2nd week, if need be. But ... we are quite flexible, the benefit of being a small enterprise.

If you are from Europe and would like to add your about what you'd like to see or do, that would be great. At the moment, I am considering hotels/restaurants that are more in the 3-4 star range (rather than 5, like our other trips) in order to keep the cost affordable for all and broaden the number to 10-12 guests at a maximum. We more than likely would have 2 visits and formal organized horizontal or vertical tastings at two Port lodges in Gaia (possibly one of VP and the other Colheita) but all is hypothetical at the moment and we'll see what feedback is received.

You don't have to be a subscriber or even a poster here on FTLOP to join us. Just a Port lover that would like to have an "insiders" experience with much better wines and meeting principals ... than you could EVER put together on your own. Of course you can visit the same property and be met by someone if you make an appointment. The difference is the particular lineup of wines that the Port trade will open for us on our tours vs. anything they will do for private individuals or groups going ad hoc. We also get to meet CEOs, family members and Managing Directors at every stop, along with winemakers ... vs the tour guide or marketing department rep that visitors with appointments typically are received by. In other words, if you visit Noval, you are not going to have Christian Seely fly in from Bordeaux to greet you and break open wines or have Rupert Symington take his boat upriver on a national holiday to hang out with you at Vesuvio while you drink a vertical of every vintage produced. Nor will I guarantee that would happen or be a part of our itinerary, but these are the types of treatment you would receive everywhere we do wind up!

Depending on the days chosen for the trip, we'd do one day in Gaia/Oporto and 2 up in the Douro. It could be reversed where the group arrives on a morning flight and we head up to the Douro for that day and the next and then do Gaia. We are flexible and can do this however we choose, along with dates and days/nights.

So, what would you like to see? 3 days? 4 days? How many nights? Arriving when? It is easiest for us to begin on a Sunday or Monday and go towards the end of the week, but we could start on a Wednesday or Thursday morning or late afternoon and finish off on Sunday too.

If you are interested in helping "design" this tour, I'd be happy to listen to your feedback.

Thank you!

Roy

[Erik Wiechers]

Great idea Roy ! Although i wish to be on the 5 star tour someday, its out of my financial league right now. This would be a great great opportunity to travel there AND visit the lodges and quinta's with someone who knows his way around. I will think about what i would like to see and send it by mail.

Cheers

[Nikolaj Winther]

This sounds like a fantastic idea, though I'd love to go on one of your... advanced (?) tours someday. The length - 3-4 days - sounds fine to me. Never having been to Portugal or the Duoro I wouldn't know where to start or where to go. I guess your contacts only go so far, or do you know everyone? One of my favourite lables are Burmester - but I have no idea if it's better to go to Burmester than Niepoort (who's also a favourite of mine). AFAIK, Burmester is some large corporation and perhaps not interested in catering to obscure visitors.

But of course, I'd like to see some of the stuff that happens in the "grand tour" - the vineyards, the production of port and surely I'd look forward to tasting. You suggest a date - was it a week after the harvest tour? It'd be wonderful to see the acts of harvesting/production. Went to australia last year in febuary just before the harvest began, and while the tour was interesting, it mostly consisted of looking at some guy sterilizing the facilities (with chlorine) an padding casks of wine. Seeing actual production, bottling or something similar would be fun. Also seeing som "farming" in the fields. I don't know what happens after the grapes are brought in (cutting?). Oh yeah, This may not be possible - but I've never actually tasted a grape meant for wine.

My 2 cents - Sorry i can't go into more detail, but I don't know how long a typical taste-off takes etc. so for me trying to pan out an entire day would be rather fruitless (Most likely we'd be running the streets of Porto chucking down port in mid-flight just to keep our appointments).

[Roy Hersh]

Nikolaj,

Welcome back to FTLOP!

Our contacts are beyond deep. I am in touch with Portuguese producers throughout the year and know the ownership and winemakers at well over 50 properties. My partner in the tour operations, Mario Ferreira is based in Portugal, worked for the IVDP for years and was the liaison between them and the USA, overseeing the NY and SF IVDP offices here. Between us, there are maybe a handful of Port producers out of the top 75 that we do not have direct contact with. So rest assured, there are NO tour companies that have ANYWHERE NEAR the depth of relationships that we do with the Port and Douro wine trade, period. We are also quite well respected in Madeira as our guests are about to find out in about ten days.

You asked about Burmester? Well coincidentally today, at 11:30 this morning I will be having lunch with a person from their parent company Sogevinus (owned by a Spanish banking conglomerate). You are correct, they normally do not have individuals without appointment. But anyone can make one and get a tour. You will often receive two small pours of their basic wines and one of Colheita. When we go ... and we did so in 2007, we had a full blown tasting going back 80 years with about a dozen Ports. We do more than one visit per day and remain focused on Port, Douro wines (Madeira too on the Fortification Tour) and great food.

I am not asking you folks to actually plan all of the details of the trip. We do that for you and quite well I might add. What I am hoping to find out is:

A. who is interested in coming along?

B. what would be more appreciated: a 3 day or 4 day trip?

C. What would you like to see in terms of a configuration? 2-3 days in Douro and 1 in Gaia? Which first? etc.

D. Names of producers that you'd like to visit. No promises, but I can guarantee you that I will use the ones mentioned here as a guide when doing the logisitical planning, which includes the majority of what we'll drink on the trip!


If we have 10-12 people who are ready, willing and able, I'll gather names and email addresses and work on a detailed plan with Mario. I'll provide you with the basics of the itinerary before you pay a single Euro, which will include everything from the time your plane hits the tarmac, until you are back at the airport returning home. It will not include your airfare, which I understand is pretty reasonable these days. I know from the UK Stansfield Airport (if I have that right) it costs just 1 pound to fly to Portugal, right now.

So, I am glad you have considered this and do rest assured that we know what we are doing.
Check with Alex B., Derek T., Eric I., David S., Andy V., and/or the dozens of others who have traveled with us on Harvest and Fortification Tours since 2005. Since that very first trip ... ever one that has followed has had at least one returning guest. MANY have been on two tours and in May, we'll have our first (from Europe) to "three-peat" with us! Read the trip reports and see what you think. We under-promise and over-deliver every time we host a group and no two trips are alike. The rest if up to you.

All I can say is, if you want to head to Portugal alone or with a partner, for the very first time or the 10th, we are confident that you will see more indepth facets of the broad Port experience, meet more of the key people in the Port Trade and drink FAR better wines (and eat well too). My info-mercial is over.

[Erik Wiechers]

a. i am interested
b. a 4 day trip would be preferrable to me
c. gaia - douro - gaia (1 -2 -1)
d. Noval, Niepoort, Croft

[Nikolaj Winther]

Nikolaj,

Welcome back to FTLOP!

I am not asking you folks to actually plan all of the details of the trip. We do that for you and quite well I might add. What I am hoping to find out is:

A. who is interested in coming along?

B. what would be more appreciated: a 3 day or 4 day trip?

C. What would you like to see in terms of a configuration? 2-3 days in Douro and 1 in Gaia? Which first? etc.

D. Names of producers that you'd like to visit. No promises, but I can guarantee you that I will use the ones mentioned here as a guide when doing the logisitical planning, which includes the majority of what we'll drink on the trip!


If we have 10-12 people who are ready, willing and able, I'll gather names and email addresses and work on a detailed plan with Mario. I'll provide you with the basics of the itinerary before you pay a single Euro, which will include everything from the time your plane hits the tarmac, until you are back at the airport returning home. It will not include your airfare, which I understand is pretty reasonable these days. I know from the UK Stansfield Airport (if I have that right) it costs just 1 pound to fly to Portugal, right now.

Hi Roy. Good to be back.

To get right to it, as Eric did:

A: Count me in.

B: I'd say 4 days. You asked what would fit us better, beginning early or late in the week - I'll let someone else recommend something, as I can do both.

C: Gaia, that's the "City of Port" right? There we can visit the lodges and taste I suppose, whereas Duoro is more about the making of port (rather than the "drinking of...") correct me if I'm wrong. Eric has an interesting setup. We spend some time in the city drinking wines - then go to see how it's made - then back at the tasting. I'm with Eric.

D: Burmester, Noval, Niepoort, Fonseca and perhaps Calem or Kopke. Mind you, I'm a tawny guy (not my complexion though - that's more like a blueish white), and those are the great tawny producers (colheita) that I've tasted. BTW many new quintas are producing their own wines/ports. I assume they don't all have lodges in Gaia - will we be visiting any of those when we reach the Duoro or what will typically take place there? I rarely see the small quintas in Denmark - it'd be nice to try some of their stuff - you know, for comparison

Of course I'd like you guys to show us some of the "secrets" in the trade. Going to Taylor's, while it's surely worth a visit, is also a "safe bet". Rather, visiting a producer that's underrated, but makes a killer something.

BTW, where would we be beginning (what airport should I aim for)?

[Al B.]

Roy,

I think this is a great idea. I can't go to Portugal this year for logistical reasons but by October 2009 it will have been 3 years since I was last over there with you and I will be raring to be back.

My personal preference would be to run a visit towards the end of the week. Say Thursday morning arrival and Sunday afternoon departure as this would minimise the number of workdays lost. Erik's suggestion of 1-2-1 (or ½ - 2 - ½) VndG - Douro - VndG sounds pretty good.

And producers I would like to visit: The Symingtons (particularly the labels below Grahams - Warre, Quarles Harris, Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse, especially if you can organise some of the older vintages to be shown); Noval; Ferreira, Burmester (for their vintage ports - some of the older examples of their vintage ports that I have had do not deserve their poor reputation); Royal Oporto (to see for myself the changes in winemaking style and its impact on their ports); Roriz.

But, as I say, I can't go in 2008 but hope that you are able to plan a 4 day, 3 night trip in the harvest time of 2009. I'll be there! (barring unforseen circumstances)

Alex

[Roy Hersh]

Nikolaj,

Please rest assured we always visit small, medium and large producers, whether in Gaia at the Lodges where we arrange special tastings or up in the Douro. We mix it up between Colheita and Vintage and the other styles of course. But we always do at least one big Colheita tasting.

As far as airports, you'll only have to concern yourself with Oporto (OPO) International Airport, which is 15-20 miles from downtown Oporto.

Please feel free to ask any questions you might have. Do you know any Port drinkers you'd like to come with us?

[Derek T.]

Roy,

This is a great idea.

I would suggest starting with a morning train ride to Pinhao followed by 2 or 3 visits to some of the Quinta's close to the town (Crasto, Noval, Bomfim, Passadouro, Mendiz, Napoles, Cavadinha all spring to mind as being within 20 minutes drive from the station). Day(s) 2 (and 3?) could be used to go farther afield (Vargellas, Vesuvio, Canais etc).

One thing you have to promise me is that you will take these guys on a boat trip. It was great fun when we did that in 06 and I'm sure it didn't bust the budget

I would recommend that all of the overnight stays included in the trip are in one hotel in the Douro to avoid losing time checking in and out of different places.

On the final day I would suggest the early train from Pinhao (07:00) with VNG lodge tours beginning around 10:00. I think you could get 3 good visits in by 18:00 and then have dinner at Vinologia for those who were not flying home that night.

One more sugestion: I think some guys in the US and Canada might be interested in this sort of trip, especially if the longer 5* trips are out of range for them. A week in Europe /UK which includes the 3 or 4 days trip to the Douro/VNG might be more acheivable for some so it might help fill up the spaces if you widen the target audience?

Hope this helps.

Derek

[Glenn E.]

Quinta de la Rosa is about a 10-20 minute walk down the Douro to the West of town, too. In fact you pass through it on the railway as you're entering Pinhao.

I really like their house Tawny and their 10-yr old. I don't recall liking their house Ruby all that much at the time, but my taste has changed considerably since then. I didn't like any Ruby Ports back then, but have since discovered that they're actually pretty good.

[Derek T.]

Quinta de la Rosa is about a 10-20 minute walk down the Douro to the West of town, too. In fact you pass through it on the railway as you're entering Pinhao.

I stayed there last weekend. Nice clean rooms and a great location. The only down-side for Roy's trip would be that they only have very few rooms, 6-8 I think, so it wouldn't suit a large group unless the participants were happy to share.

Derek

[Nikolaj Winther]

Roy, a question:

You aim for this trip to begin a week after the Harvest Tour has ended. I was wondering how long harvest takes in Duoro? Does it take weeks and weeks, or is it all over in a couple of days? And secondly, how sure are you, that there's actually going to be a harvest in your Harvest Tour? The reason I ask is that I too would like to see some of the harvesting processes, as you might gather from my previous posts. BTW it's not a dealbreaker to me.

In Denmark, ordering port at a restaurant is like ordering crack cocaine. So not a lot of people know that much about it. It's also associated with alcoholic old men, reminiscing on the days of the great Queen Victoria. In short it's not very "hip". But I do know some who would like to come - sadly I don't think they can find the time. One is my brother, but he's getting married and have started a new job etc. so he's out. The other is my dad - and there might be a better chance to get him along. But he can be a stubborn old b***ard and he can have a hard time getting out of work. But he's an avid port lover. I don't have any friends who's into port. In fact many 2. generation friends (friends of friends) reckognize/remember be becaust I am the one drinking port at summer parties and at new years (While they drink mojitos, black/white russians and cheap lager).

Uhh... I'm getting all giddy.

[Mario Ferreira]

Roy, a question:

You aim for this trip to begin a week after the Harvest Tour has ended. I was wondering how long harvest takes in Duoro? Does it take weeks and weeks, or is it all over in a couple of days? And secondly, how sure are you, that there's actually going to be a harvest in your Harvest Tour? The reason I ask is that I too would like to see some of the harvesting processes, as you might gather from my previous posts. BTW it's not a dealbreaker to me.

Nikolaj (and also Roy), if you allow me, I would like assist you here on this question :)

Fyi, the final date for the 3-day Tour has not been finalized yet. Doing it right after the FTLOP "Harvest Tour" is a strong possibility. The "Harvest Tour" is planned to start on 29th September and finish by October 5th. It's one whole week.

The 3-day Tour could be done after the already planned FTLOP "Harvest Tour". I guess Roy has started this topic for discussing here to better find out from the feedback of this Forum members what date would work best.

The HARVEST itself usually starts in the Douro in early September and finishes by mid-October. This is the time when the grapes are ripe and ready to be picked up for th emaking of wine.

That period September/October is just for general guidance, of course. Some vineyards start their harvest later than the others, some others despite having started later their harvest, will be finished first, etc. Depending on its size, some vineyards are finished in just a few days and others might take several weeks to be done. Anyway, we may consider that harvest period in the Douro Region has a time frame of about 6 weeks, starting in early September.

When we do this Tour in late September / early October, we know that we'll hit the harvest period for sure. We can not miss it :)

The FTLOP Port Wine Tours are casual but can get very technical as well, and are funny of course :) and at the same time very friendly for Port Wine beginners. Guests have arrived with all types of background in Port and have just loved it. :)

[Nikolaj Winther]

Hi Mario.

That sounds swell. I'm getting very exited about meeting all you guys and having a great time.

You consistently refer to the trip as a "3-day" tour. Is the length/duration final or are you just careful not to get our hopes up?

Regards - Nikolaj

[Roy Hersh]

We can be quite flexible and see what our guests want to do. 4 days is certainly within reason and we could accomplish far more with a four day trip. But we are open to do either a 3 or 4 day, depending on what folks are looking for in terms of duration, experience and cost -- of course. Obviously a 3 day trip will be more affordable than a 4 day trip, however once we start to come up with an itinerary and look into hotel properties we will be able to discuss specific costs involved on an individualized basis.

For competitive reasons (meaning our competitors would love to copy us and have tried) we ONLY discuss the trip pricing by phone. That means if you are serious about coming along, you will get to hear my voice one of these days.

[Micky Jensen]

Hello guys,

First time poster here btw.

I was wondering if you ever did make this EU trip to Portugal?

We are 4 danish guys that went to Oporto last year, with a small trek to Pinhao, and we are definately planning on going again in 2009.

Cheers, Micky.

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Micky,

We did not have enough interest in a trip like this last year. However, in May of 2009 ... we are going to do a 2 part trip, called the Fortification Tour. The first half is Port and the 2nd half is Madeira. We'd be happy to discuss having you and your friends join us for the 1st half. If you are set on doing the harvest instead, we can discuss doing a tour ... if all 4 of you are going to come along, after our regularly scheduled week. Please email me and I'd be happy to share more details. Provide your phone number and best time to call and I would call you over the weekend if that would work for you.

You mention you are a first time poster, so please accept my welcome to and know that we're very glad you have joined us!

Best regards,

Roy

[Micky Jensen]

Ah ok, makes sense that the thread just kinda faded then.

I did send you a PM yesterday as well, but I can just paste it into an email instead for more info.

And we will for sure be interested, as long as it is within our (very loose) budget :)

[Roy Hersh]

Email sent -- and thanks for your interest Micky!