Commercialization of this website

[Frederick Blais]

Got another one :)

Put a For the love of Port online store. You wanted to sell Port Tongs. Don't limit yourself to that. Try to get the Port industry involved and take a small risk in that too.

How many of us didn't want to get a t-shirt, glasses or any apparel with Port brand on it. At least here in Canada I was never able to get anything to the exception of a Ramos Pinto poster that Jorge gave me. In Portugal, I was able to get a Fonseca and Niepoort t-shirt. Even there there is not much good choices. I'd like to get a Vesuvio t-shirt with the label on it, a Niepoort t-shirt with the same design as the labels and the color according to the foil. I'd like to get a collection of every wine glass with port brand you can find, put it takes too much time to visit all the lodges to do so in Portugal. If you want to even sale framed pictures of the Douro region, I have no objection offering you some high resolution pictures I took, some are postal card quality! Wine store is the solution to all my problems.

You can give rebate to those who bought a membership card or those who bought the access to the tasting note section.

oh! The real solution would be to hire me in your business :o

Now, can I have my bottle? You said you'd ship it everywhere! Pretty hard to ship here in Québec btw with the SAQ monopoly and by this time of the year, temperature is -20, it would get here in a ice cube :?

[Derek T.]

Roy,

Happy to report that the temperature over here is around +10 degrees so probably best for all involved if you send the bottle to me rather than Fred

Derek

[Derek T.]

Mike,

Always a pleasure to encounter someone who's brain is as scrambled as my own

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

Wow, some great ideas generated so far. I am glad that I asked you folks for help. Who would know better?

I will provide another 2 weeks for folks to respond here with their suggestions. Now that I see you are all taking this seriously ...

It is amazing how one bottle of great VP can motivate!


I will get together with Stewart just after New Years and decide on a winner.

I know that anybody would be proud to have this bottle!

Keep those entries coming, but only the serious ones please.


Thanks!

[Derek T.]

Roy,

Just read a posting on Marketplace that made me think of another idea.

You have given us the name of a retailer offering a 5% discount if we mention FTLOP with no kick-back to you. Why not?

If you can point us to good retailers in the US or in Europe that have very reasonably priced good quality port, and we then buy some on the back of your advice, then why not ask them to give you the 5% rather than passing it onto us. It's your recommendation that would be important to me rather than a couple of $$ off a bottle.

The challenge for you is to find dealers with consistently good stock and consistently low prices. The rest is just a matter of how much business you can bring them by promoting their stock on this site.

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

If you can point us to good retailers in the US or in Europe that have very reasonably priced good quality port, and we then buy some on the back of your advice, then why not ask them to give you the 5% rather than passing it onto us.

#! issue for me is integrity. Getting a finder's fee (I hate the term kick back as it sounds so, "illegal") for getting folks deals is bad juju.
#2 is that I really want retailers to work with me to provide me with advance notice when they are having offerings, or in some cases that I have already posted, they create deals to see how the folks on this BB respond.
#3 I do want you folks to receive the savings and this would then offer "added value" to being members here. It is important that the "deals" that come OUR way, be taken advantage of. With only 230+ members here, the amount of sales the FORUM itself will generate is not big enough to get retailers too excited YET. So, sending these deals to the much larger audience that receives the newsletter, may make the difference ... in the future.
#4 Using the 1963 Nacional bottle for example, I asked Michelle to post this on the Forum as we had talked about this bottle prior to her joining and posting here. I could have posted this on the Ebob website and the bottle would be gone tomorrow. I could also just call any of a half dozen very wealthy Port collector friends and tell them about this single bottle and it would be gone in five minutes. But I want YOU folks of the Forum, to have the best Port buying opportunities so that this place becomes even more valuable and people will want to check in more frequently and not miss these types of great deals.
#5 All of the above!

[Derek T.]

Roy,

I disagree. From what I have read there are not many regulars on this forum who cannot afford to fund their obsession and, whilst we all like a good deal, I'm sure most are happy to pay fair prices for good quality rather than always looking for a bargain at 5% off market rate. I would happily sacrifice 5% discount for certainty of provenance and quality any day of the week.

Your network of contacts and knowledge of the trade are valuable commodities for which you could and should benefit from. I applaud the sentiment of you wanting your members to be the beneficiaries of your input to this site but, as you have admitted by starting this thread, it is not commercially viable for you.

I work hard for a living and sleep well at night after taking my slice of the cake home. You are entitled to do the same. We are all benefiting from your hard work, knowledge and contacts - why shouldn't you?

Derek

[Al B.]

Roy,

I would firmly support Derek's opinion. If you are directing us towards a supplier who you know and trust to sell wine of good provenance at a fair price, I would be very happy if you also earned a commission on the sales that the supplier made to forum members.

I would expect you to declare the commission in the same way that I would expect any intermediary to declare their interest, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting a value on your advice and experience.

Call it a variation on catalogue shopping if that makes it more palatable.

Alex

[Al B.]

Roy,

I have had a couple of further thoughts on how to increase the circulation of the FTLOP newsletter, although I think the best ideas have already been generated by Fred and Derek.

My ideas are:

(1) Ask everyone who currently receives the newsletter to send a copy to one more person who they know who enjoys port and might enjoy receiving the newsletter on a regular basis. After all, there is nothing better than a personal recommendation. Encourage them to do this with an offer of a draw for all new subscribers (and the person recommending the newsletter to them) for a modest bottle of port (I'm thinking SQ here).

(2) Choose an organisation where port is sold and appreciated and offer to send them a small number of recent and future issues for them to leave lying around for customers to read. I'm thinking of the equivalent of newspapers in a coffee shop, port newsletters in a wine bar. Maybe even give Ian a call and see if he thinks that his customers might find it interesting to be able to read the newsletter while they sip the latest fine vintage he offers.

(3) Have a look through the membership of the forum and see how many people are members of the forum but are not subscribers. My guess is that you will find that there are a significance minority who are only forum members. There are a couple of members that I have introduced who are not very active, mainly due to pressure of time, work and families, but who would love the chance to be able to sit down with the newsletter and have a quick read in those few moments they have to themselves. Encourage those people to subscribe - perhaps with a new forum folder or a sticky on the topics list that contains a very quick link to a simple page that can take their details.

Three simple but perhaps effective ideas that should be relatively easy to pursue for a quick impact.

Alex

[Roy Hersh]

Excellent suggestions and I appreciate the support and your helping me to brain storm.

I will add many to the "to do" list, except one.

I don't think I will ever feel good about making or taking the extra 5% or hopefully more from other retailers, in the future. I will always pass this on to YOU folks, as this is one of the "services" I can provide for Europe and US based Forumites. I know you folks say it is fine with you, but that is not the issue. I must find other ways to generate the revenue and using some of your other ideas and some of my own and Stewarts ... I will in time.

Please do not worry about the solvency of this website. My wife has a solid career and does not mind supporting this effort for the foreseeable future, while I "figure it all out."

The best way for me to approach making some sort of living here, is to "sell" the Tourism business aspect of trips to Port and Madeira. I am about to launch the next two trips. Hopefully they will gain in popularity ... especially when my newsletter comes out next week with pictures, TNs, names etc. I heard you UK guys loud and clear about offering 3 or 4 day versions of the trip and I will incorporate that as well, into the plan.

Although I feel very humble being this upfront with my business stuff ... in the big scheme of life, "who cares" whether it is embarrasing or not.

Again, your encouragement, means a lot and your ideas and support are so very much appreciated.

Roy

[Derek T.]

Roy,

I will graciously concede on the issue of "the 5%" - I respect any man who is prepared to stick to what he believes is the right thing to do

I hope you and everyone else on the Forum have a wonderful Christmas.

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

As promised there is a fine bottle of Vintage Port that will be given or sent to the most helpful post that will be utilized in the future. As I am the "front man" here, I am too close to you all to make the decision.

Therefore, I will allow Stewart to do so, as he can be far more objective! 8)

The decision will be announced on New Year's Eve.


Thank you all for your insights and ongoing supPORT!


Roy

[Kris Henderson]

Hi Roy,

I just came across this thread. Hopefully I'm not too late to be placed in the running for that bottle. Here are a few ideas on how to increase the circulation of your newsletter:

1. Create a condensed, one page, version of the newsletter that you can send to wine stores across the country include info on how to subscribe to the full email version.

2. Take out a small advertisement in the back of wine related magazines and include a URL people can go to to sign up for the newsletter.

3. Rick Steves writes travel guide books and has a weekly radio show on NPR. Contact him to see when/if he's going to do a segment about Portugal and see if he'll have you on his show as a guest. Mention fortheloveofport.com to let listeners know they can go there to find out about your newsletter and port tours.

4. Contact the University of Washington Experimental College. A few times a year you could teach a port wine tasting class, perhaps expand this to Douro table wines or other table wines. It would be a good way to advertise your website and newsletter and maybe even make a little extra money on the side.

-Kris

p.s. I'd also love to have an updated book about Portugal and the wines from Portugal.

[Kris Henderson]

Roy,

One last idea. See if you can work with Eric at Cellartracker to cross reference your database of tasting notes with his. Whenever someone reads a tasting note for a port or wine you have a tasting note for your note would be displayed in the same area that Steven Tanzer's notes are displayed. If they click on your picture they're taken to your web site or a page to sign up for the newsletter. This will drive traffic to your site and hopefully a percentage of people clicking the link would sign up for the newsletter.

[Al B.]

I have one other off-the-wall idea that might move me closer to the decision for the prize bottle.

Ebay in the UK usually have a handful of bottles of vintage port for auction and there is clearly a core of people who both buy and sell through ebay.

Why not put a complete set of your newsletters up for auction. Make sure and include "Vintage Port" since that seems to be a key search criterion. Advertise it both in the UK and in the US ebay. Even if no-one bids, it allows you to

(a) advertise your newsletter and how to subscribe to it; and

(b) allows you to put a link to the FTLP homepage in your profile.

If nothing else, its free publicity!!

Alex

[Roy Hersh]

Kris,

Tomorrow is the last day before Stewart makes his final decision, so your ideas will be included.



Alex,

More good ideas, but how can I auction what folks can find for free on the website

[Al B.]

Roy,

If you want to exploit the power of ebay for (almost) free advertising then make sure your description of your newsletters includes the fact that anyone interested can get them free from the FTLOP website or by subscribing. Start the bidding at 1 cent.

If anyone does actually bid then send them a message saying that you are happy for them to not complete payment if they would prefer to obtain the newsletters for free.

You never know, maybe someone out there does not have access to the web and would actually be willing to pay you for a paper copy to be sent to them!

Alex

[Frederick Blais]

Another idea before the deadline :)

Make a DVD!

Much easier to do than a book and much easier to teach the basics. On the DVD you can have 3 basic sections or even more. First one to teach how to taste the different kind of ports. What flavor to look for, food pairings example, appropriate glasses, how to open the bottles with tongs, Ah-So, regular uncorker etc.

Then the 2nd section would be in Portugal. A quick tour around Porto and Gaia, how are the lodges built, what it looks like from the inside, the specification of each type of Port and the barrel used to age it. Then a interview with a producer.

The 3rd section would be in the vineyards. What are the different task we need to execute in the vineyards, when do we execute them, how do we grow grapes, the patamares, terraces and up the hill techniques, the type of grapes with their caracteristics, how is the harvest made, treading the grapes in the lagares etc

If you want you can also add a 4th section for the Douro wines and a 5th on Madeira. So the title could be "From Douro to Madeira, the sweetest country revealed"

With that in hand, you can sell it on your web site, ask for the boutiques in Portugal to sell it, ask Mario to do a Portuguese version, use it when you teach etc !

It will not take you much time to do that. Each time you taste a wine, you ask someone to film you. With the trips you are making to Portugal and Madeira you can do the remaining parts there. Just build a small scenario and your almost done!

What do you think? should I copyright this idea

[Frederick Blais]

Web site positionning:

This issue has more to do with Stewart. It is very important, it draws a lot of traffic toward you site. Make sure all the search engine bot find your website. There are a lot of strategies to do so, even books are published on that subject. At my job, they hired one guy to only do that just to show you how it can bring more money in when you bring more traffic.

For example, if I type in Google Taylor 1970, what about the first result being Roy's tasting note on this perticular wine. Same thing if I type Douro as my query, what about the first result being Roy trip to the Douro.

It is not an easy task for sure but something to consider seriously when you have time to do that.

[Derek T.]

Roy/Stewart,

I've come up with a brilliant idea that is way better than any of the above suggestions - if you send me the bottle I'll tell you what it is

Derek