Taylor vs. Fonseca - What do you prefer

[Andy Velebil]

This may be a bit of a controversial topic...but which of these producers do you prefer and why? I know some people are not major fans of Taylor's VP's, even those from top years such as 1970. So I am very curious to hear what people honestly have to say about the two producers.

[Moses Botbol]

That question is like Sophie's Choice

Both houses make a fabulous port and I can’t side with one or the other.

Just as a Fonseca seems soft and won’t age, drink an old Fonseca and it’s still going strong.

We’ll have to do a pre-1970 vertical of each and I’ll let you know.

Better off asking, Shimano or Campagnolo?

[Derek T.]

I would go for Fonseca but have to admit to having very limited experience of Taylor VPs. In the tastings where I have had Fonseca and Taylor side by side I have always preferred the Fonseca. That doesn't mean I don't like the Taylor, I just like the Fonseca more.

[Todd Pettinger]

Better off asking, Shimano or Campagnolo?

Well THAT's easy - Campy (altho I have to admit to never having OWNED a bike with Campy.... too pricey for the Record Carbon stuff and locally, Shimano wins big time meaning more Shimano components available to buy to replace the ones on my bike(s)as replacements are needed!)

Getting this train right back on-track before the non-bikey nuts get on us Moses , I can't answer this question because I have never had the chance to try a generally-decalred Fonseca VP :? I have tried two vintages of Guimaraens, but just like you cannot make a decision on Taylor generally-declared VPs by sampling only Terra Feita or Varghellas, I cannot

To explain (kind of) I have tried more Vintages of Taylor than Fonseca, (T63, 66, 70. 80, 85, 97, 2000 and 2003 and Varghellas in 87, 91 and 2005 versus only Guimaraens 98 and 2001.)


From what I gather from many of the comments made on this site, I would *suspect* that more people will prefer Fonseca over Taylor, but that is just a guess based on what I have read on the site over the past year and a half - it will be interesting to see what comments are made and what the masses have to say. (If they select just one - I predict that many will take the position Moses took and say "both.")

Todd

[Derek T.]

Better off asking, Shimano or Campagnolo?

Well THAT's easy - Campy (altho I have to admit to never having OWNED a bike with Campy.... too pricey for the Record Carbon stuff and locally, Shimano wins big time meaning more Shimano components available to buy to replace the ones on my bike(s)as replacements are needed!)

Ah, brakes n stuff - I thought you were talking about mushrooms :help:

Todd,

You need help from your friends here. Surely there is someone within striking distance of you would could supply a Fonseca or two at an off-line? Come on guys, do the right thing, our friend needs you

Incidentally, I have tasted the both Fonseca and Taylor 63, 66, 70, 80, 85 and 2000 from the list you provided and in all but 1980 Fonseca wins hands down for me. You need to find some Fonseca quick!

Derek

[Eric Ifune]

I'm going to go with Taylor. Maybe I'm a masochist, but I love the grip and backbone.

[Alan Gardner]

I've had (mostly) blind tastings of every declared vintage since1955(inclusive) - easy to do (in theory) as they always seem to declare the same vintages.
With the exception of 1983 (where Taylor was far superior), I have preferred Fonseca consistently. Note: Most of these were blind - although I haven't compared blind since the 1994 vintage, so my pre-disposition may have been towards Fonseca in more recent years. Haven't had Fonseca in the 40's, but all the Taylors from the 40's were superb. Since then I seem to find more alcohol in the finish of Taylors - which I find less appetizing.

[Todd Pettinger]

You need help from your friends here. Surely there is someone within striking distance of you would could supply a Fonseca or two at an off-line? Come on guys, do the right thing, our friend needs you

Incidentally, I have tasted the both Fonseca and Taylor 63, 66, 70, 80, 85 and 2000 from the list you provided and in all but 1980 Fonseca wins hands down for me. You need to find some Fonseca quick!

Derek

I suspect that I will have the chance to try a real blockbuster as an intro to Fonseca VP in November - '94.

Before you get going n how it is infanticide at only 14 yrs old and that I shouldn't be opening a blockbuster Fonseca prematurely - I know I know - it is not my choice. It is an arranged tasting from a local wine shop (which Roy flies in to lead each year! ) and I have zero input on the theme... which this year is "1994 VPs"

But WHAT a Fonseca to try (I'm guessing!)

I am heading to the 2nd land of cheap VP (USA) next month, so am already working on tracking down something to bring back across the border!!! :)

[Andy Velebil]

Very interesting so far and thanks to those that have posted. I'll wait a little longer to see if more people chime in before giving my thoughts.

[Glenn E.]

Despite having several of both in my fridge, the only one of either that I have ever tasted is the 1970 Taylor which was fantastic.

So for me, Taylor wins by default!

[Moses Botbol]

I never really answered this thread's question.

I am picking Fonseca as I find Fonseca to be sweeter tasting than Taylor and that is normally my preference with port.

There you go... Fonseca for me!

[SEAN C.]

For me the answer is Fonseca..The 1948 and 1945 Taylor's are EXCELLENT but the 1948 Fonseca is better. I think the '63 Fonseca is a hair better than the '63 Taylor, the '66 Fonseca as well. Without a doubt the 1970 Fonseca destroys the '70 Taylor! The '77's are good from both houses..but the 1980 Taylor is better to me..and the 83's and 85's I don't remember. I need to re-visit those and the ones from the 50's. Overall I like the Fonseca style better as I usually taste a lot of spice with the Taylor's and more of a sweet flavor with Fonseca.

Todd you need to come hang out with Moses and I and I'll take care of you on the Fonseca end!

As far as bike parts are concerned Campagnolo all the way!

[Roy Hersh]

My preferences are:

1945 - Taylor
1948 - tie
1955 - Fonseca
1963 - Fonseca
1966 - too close to call ... as it really matters on the bottle(r)
1970 - Fonseca
1977 - Taylor
1980 - Taylor
1983 - Fonseca
1985 - Fonseca by a mile
1987 - Vargellas over Guimaraens
1991 - Vargellas
1992 - Taylor
1994 - Taylor
1995 - Vargellas
1997 - Fonseca
2000 - Fonseca although the Vinha Velha is very very close
2003 - jury is out but leaning towards Fonseca
2005 - Vargellas

[Ronald Wortel]

Very close, but I think Fonseca wins with photo finish. I love the power and depth of Taylor, but I think I love Fonseca's ultracomplex and delicately layered style just a little bit better.

But when it comes to SQVP / second label, Vargellas wins over Guimaraens as far as I'm concerned.

And I very much like the Shimano kit on my racing bike. :)

[Todd Pettinger]

My preferences are:
...
1970 - Fonseca
...

Given your daughter's name and the fact that it was based on the 'other,' I was actually very surprised to see this...

[Roy Hersh]

Obviously I love the 1970 Taylor. But I have to call 'em like I see 'em and the Fonseca is the bottling that I find is even greater. It was not an option for my daughter's name though. Actually when I chose Taylor, my wife did not immediately put 1 + 1 together. It was about 3 days before she came back to me and said, "hey, wait a minute ... "

[Shawn Denkler]

Being a hardcore portlover for over thirty years, I’ve had Taylor & Fonseca in many vertical and horizontal tastings. Then I’ve had many bottles of each on their own with a friend or two. For each house I’ve had all major vintages back to 1927 multiple times, but going older than that my experience is limited to relatively few bottles.

Taylor & Fonseca are the great first growths of the port world. I would include Graham, Noval, and Niepoort as the other first growths. Taylor and Fonseca are the great first growths because they have more ports ranked as the best of the vintage than the other houses.

A big part of what makes a winery a first growth is its ability to age a substantial amount of time, and to be great with age. Both Taylor & Fonseca age remarkably well. They are usually powerful when young and hold their fruit while gaining complexity. Well stored bottles of each from 1927 are extraordinary ports today.

Taylor is more alcoholic and tannic, and takes longer to come around than Fonseca. Perhaps this is because Fonseca has more fruit character which hides the alcohol and tannin. I feel Fonseca does have more fruit as a young port, and it holds this fruit longer than any other port house except a few vintages of Niepoort.

I think this full bodied fruit that Fonseca has is a big reason for its popularity. The character of the fruit is also marvelous with a spiciness and hint of orange peel. It does not have the menthol or bay leaf flavors some ports have. Its powerful yet smooth richness is another reason for its popularity. Fonseca is sweeter than most other ports which gives more weight and fullness to the mouth as well.

Taylor takes longer to come into drinkability than any other port house, it remains tight and closed for a long time. Its alcohol and tannin can be overwhelming when young. Many people like this firm grip and power which gives it a dryer style. Quinta de Vargellas is used as the backbone of Taylor, which is apparent to those that have had the single quinta bottling. Once a vintage does open up it is spectacular and holds its drinkability in a long plateau. But few people see the amazing bottle bouquet that Taylor develops with age. I think Taylor develops a finer and more intense bottle bouquet in great age than any other port house. I am referring to the period in which a vintage port still has vintage characteristics, and not the latter stage in which it takes on a tawny character. In Taylor this would be major vintages between 1927 and 1955. For me this is the greatness of Taylor.

To decide between Taylor and Fonseca, it depends on the age for me. Each house has generally been better in certain vintages. But it is the style I look at in my general preference. I prefer the style of Fonseca for ports up to fifty years of age, by then the fantastic bottle bouquet of Taylor has developed and I generally prefer Taylor.

I do not think my preference is based on any changes in style or greatness of the houses over the years. Taylor and Fonseca continue to make outstanding port, and who makes the better port varies year to year.

[Marc J.]

I'd say that I typically prefer Taylor's style over Fonseca. Don't get me wrong, Fonseca produces some exceptional wines and there are many years that the Fonseca bottling is superior (in my humble opinion). With that said, over the years I've found that the style of Taylor's Ports is one that suits my palate.

Marc

[Andy Velebil]

Well I guess it's my turn to list what I prefer. But first I want to thank everyone for their answers. Everyone's answers have been a good read and it seems most so far are lean toward Fonseca.

As for me, I love both houses, but I can only chose one. I love Fonseca for its depth, complexity, and structure that it holds onto as it ages. Fonseca gains so much on the palate yet with even with that depth it also has a soft flowery side that helps keep things in check. As for Taylors, their top VP's are monsters when young and not very fun to try. They tend to be all over the map, sometimes a little hot (from the Vargellas backbone I imagine), and often times disjointed. Shawn hit the nail on the head IMO with Taylors. They take a very long time to come around and even all that out. The sad part is, most of us won't be around by then to enjoy them. So even though I've had many awsome Taylor's VP's and I own plenty, they don't quite do it for me like Fonseca does. So my choice is Fonseca.

[David Spriggs]

So my choice is Fonseca.

Interesting! My choice for many years was clear - I *loved* Taylor. After cellaring and tasting many Taylor's and Fonseca's, I was seduced by Fonseca. I now consider Fonseca my favorite. I'm in love with it balance and spice. Still it's quite a powerful wine, but not rustic or brash. Simply a great drink. I continue to buy both Taylor and Fonseca, but am buying much more Fonseca these days. And now on to the list:

1963 - Fonseca
1970 - Fonseca
1977 - Taylor
1980 - ?
1983 - Fonseca
1985 - Fonseca
1992 - Taylor
1994 - Fonseca
1997 - Fonseca
2000 - Fonseca
2003 - Fonseca (The Jury is in! :) )

-Dave-