The "comfort zone" ...

[Roy Hersh]

I may do a poll in the future on a topic like this, once we have reached some critical mass, as so far in the past two days we have had about 35 people sign up from 7 countries.

What I am looking to find out is, what is your comfort zone in terms of spending on a 750 of Port?

What about Madeira?


Please do specify the types of each that you most commonly purchase. For example, for Ports it might be LBV, 20 year Tawny or Colheita. For Madeira it might be Rainwater, 10 year old, or a Solera. Thanks!

[Frederick Blais]

My confort zone depends on how much money is left in my bank account and how big will be the hole in it created by the new acquired bottle

Normally I go with the name I like and I'll on quantities if I don't have enough money available at the moment. I try to have at least 2 bottles of the big names I like, sometimes more like the Niepoort 2000 VP. If a bottle is more than a 100$ can, I will buy only one, the only exception are so far the Taylor 97, Fonseca 2000 and the Vinha Velha from vargellas.

The most I paid for a Port was the Vinha Velha 2000 from Vargellas and I bought 3

I'd like to live in the US as the price for mature Port is ridiculus compared to what we pay in Canada. Taylor 1970 can be found at around 120-190US in the US but in Québec it is sold at 599$ can, around 450 US$ :twisted:

For the madeira, I did not have many experience but the most I paid was 55$ can for a bottle of Henriques Henriques 15 years sercial which I like much more after a day of rest in the bottle at room temperature. Too much acidity was showing when we opened it.

[Alan Rath]

Roy, good topic. It may surprise you to learn that I actually started my "fine wine" collection with Port, as opposed to California wines! Starting in about 1989, I did a lot of business travel to Europe, pretty much all over, although quite a lot in the U.K. (but never Portugal, and rarely Spain). My collection started by picking up an odd bottle in the Berry Bros. shop in Heathrow Terminal 3, where they used to regularly have some pretty good Ports at fairly decent prices (got some 97 Niepoort there for $43 when it was closer to $70 in the States). I would wander in to the various London shops on my free time and look for "bargains," like a sub-$100 77 Taylor at Justerini&Brooks, etc. I've found older wines in some pretty out of the way places, like an 85 Taylor in a little country store in New Zealand. Unfortunately, I wasn't knowledgeable enough back then to be buying futures, and got run over the by Spectator Fonseca/Taylor-WOTY freight train, so my stocks of those 2 wines are very small.

To answer your question, you can see that I'm a bit of a bargain hunter. I've actually never paid more than $100 for a bottle of Port (well, I just violated that with a 1937 Warre's Colheita I bought recently to open for my 50th). The current 2003 futures prices are definitely at the upper limit of my budget, and I'm buying selectively in groups of 3s and 4s. In all honesty these prices are leading me to look more to older, known vintages and wines, such as Fonseca 85. Which is not to say that I believe the wines are overpriced for their quality and production levels, just that they are priced too high for me to buy in larger quantities.

Cheers,
Alan

[Andy Velebil]

My comfort zone is usually $55 to $80 US dollar range. Although i have spend more for a few older 1960's, 1970, and 1977 VP's just get a very small cellar started with some older stuff. Since I am only 32 years and have some time ahead (I'm inside so lightening can't get me, haha) I am now starting to buy some 1980's and 1990's and a few of the 2000's. Although my budget is relatively small at this point in my career I plan on buying a couple of cases of 2003's to set aside for when I retire. The funny thing is I prefer port over wine, and I now buy very little wine compared to port. I guess I just found something that I like very much.

I do want to thank Roy, and everyone else, for the site. I am still very new to port, I'm sure I'll be asking lots of questions soon, and I look forward to learining more from all of you.

Andy

[Roy Hersh]

Alan,

There is nothing wrong with being a bargain hunter. I was very proud of purchasing bottles 15+ years ago for great prices after "investigating" their provenance. There is a very satisfying feeling, like when you get a great deal on a new car at low finance rates too.

I have had a bunch of Colheitas from 1935, 1937 and 1938, but for some reason ... more from '37 than the other two vintages. I have never had the Warre though. Should be great if the Niepoort, Noval and Kopke are any indication.

[Roy Hersh]

Andy,

It sounds like you are making smart decisions and are the man with the purchasing plan when it comes to Port. Don't worry or feel the need to appologize for liking Port more than other wines. I too have a sweet tooth and drink it quite frequently, from many producers, many vintages and actually everything from Tawnies with an indication of age, to Colheitas to LBVs and of course Vintage Ports. On rare occasions I will delve into what used to be called Vintage Character Ports, that are now called Reserva or Reserve Ports, not to mention a once in a blue moon Crusted Port.

Do not avoid the young Ports to get on pre-release when possible so you can be assured the bottles will cellar in great shape (under your control) while still cherry picking some fine deals on older vintages. Seek out some, like 1995 and 1987 and 1978 and 1967 for some less appreciated vintages for current consumption, usually found at great prices. If you have questions about a specific wine you see on the market, you now have the perfect place to ask for an opinion, before making the leap of cash and buying wihtout a recommendation.

Do not buy on price alone, especially old bottles. For an example, a 1985 Quinta do Noval might be found rather inexpensively. It is a great vintage, a well known name too ... but Noval only made a mediocre Vintage Port in 1985 and those who don't know better, might think they are grabbing a great deal. Ultimately they'll be less enthused once the bottle is open. It may offer a good value overall, but there are better wines out there at prices that in comparison, might seem far better. Look at Alan, who seems to make a hobby of being an astute Port shopper.

By the way, thanks for you joining the site and welcome aboard!

[Jay Woodruff]

Very different animals.

For port I look for the best deals on new vintages and provenence on older. I am willing to pay a more for provence, to a point. I am also willing to wait for a good deal as they come by enough that splurging on lesser deals do not make sense.

For madiera, good vintage madeira, I do look for price as well but price tends to increase. Getting a port deal for sub $100 is quite posible even for mature bottles; less so for madeira. For madeira I am willing to increase the price as I know I can enjoy the bottle over time. A shot in a bar every night for rockgut tquilla costs more than a pour each night of nice vintage madeira.

Jay.

[Ross Lynch]

My comfort level might be a bit below the reasonable. My experiences to date have been mostly with VP from 95, 94, 97, 2000 and some odds and ends. Warres, Taylor, Fonseca, Dow. I have come to expect that I will pay $35-$45 per bottle for something that I will really enjoy. On occasion I will spend more when I know I am getting a Port that I can appreciate for the money.

My goal is to learn to buy the best for the money. Once I feel comfortable that I can do that, I will feel more comfortable spending more on a single bottle.

No experience with Madeira.

[Roy Hersh]

Ross,

Take you time before you breach the $100 price ceiling. Once you do, the rest is downhill. There are hundreds of choices below that level that are excellent in quality, and that does not even begin to include Ports from the Non-VP categories!

Explore and enjoy.

[Steven Kooij]

The thrill is in the hunt! I love browsing shops (and the web) for "forgotten" bottles, and I enter every wine shop I come across. It has paid off: magnums Taylor '70 for 100 Euro, Fonseca '85 for 45 E, Taylor '94 for 54 E, Fonseca '00 for 48 E (less then on release)...
The only Ports I paid more than 100 E for are '63 and '70 Niepoort VP (and the '52 Garrafeira, but that bottle was bought together with 2 friends).

[Roy Hersh]

As long as you do your diligence and don't solely grab bottles based on their selling price, the "hunt" can be one of the greatest facets of collecting (wine) Port. From 1990-1996 I had an eagle eye and spent MANY hours a week hunting down great Port, most of that time was before I started on the net.

[xxxMonique Heinemans]

I had a "rule" before the euro was introduced: 25 Dutch Guilders max. for a bottle of wine and 75 Dutch Guilders max. for a bottle of Port.
After the introduction of the euro, 4 years ago, it seems that everything has become twice as expensive. So now it turns out to be € 25 for wine and € 75 for Port. And of course there are always exceptions. I call them "must haves"!
I don't buy a lot of LBV's but price is no issue there. Aged tawny I try to stay below € 60.

Monique.

[Harris Ueng]

What I am looking to find out is, what is your comfort zone in terms of spending on a 750 of Port?

...

Please do specify the types of each that you most commonly purchase. For example, for Ports it might be LBV, 20 year Tawny or Colheita. For Madeira it might be Rainwater, 10 year old, or a Solera. Thanks!

VP ... don't like breaking the US$80 ceiling (this is true for any single bottle of ANYTHING, really)
LBV ... will spend up to $25 to satisfy curiosity of something that is now hard to find in my area (like a '97 Noval LBV), but nice LBV's around $15 seem to be plentiful
20 yr Tawny ... ~$40 not to exceed $45, unless I hear from someone whose taste preferences are similar to mine that it's absolutely fantastic, then it's only a one-time spend out of curiosity.

[Roy Hersh]

Harris,

Have you tried the Ferreira Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny?

[Harris Ueng]

Harris,

Have you tried the Ferreira Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny?

Roy, you are sooooooo baiting me on that one... 8)

My wallet needs to recover from a recent, unplanned purchase of a Pinot Gris SGN. The purchase occurred AFTER I told myself I need to cool my jets for a while...

Cheers for the pointer!