1805 Verdelho Vintage

[jose9]

Hello,

I have the opportunity to buy a 1805 Verdelho Vintage at an auction. Could someone tell me what approx. price it should reach, and... whether it is worth it...

Many thanks and best regards

Dr José Vouillamoz

[Roy Hersh]

Dear Jose,

Welcome to and we hope you will come back here to join us on occasion.

We really need more information before we can provide you with any type of accurate estimate on the bottle in question. First and foremost, do you know the producer?

Secondly, what about the fill level, and condition of the bottle and prior storage ... what can you tell us that will help us, help you?

Best regards!

[jose9]

Hello Roy,

Thanks a lot for the quick answer. Yes, I forgot to mention the producer: it's Blandy's. I have a picture of the bottle here :

http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... lhotv4.jpg

The seller says the level is into neck, but it can't be seen on this image, and says it has been stored "professionally".

Thanks for your help,
Best regards

José

[Andreas Platt]

I'd say no more than USD 200,- since you said you don't know about provenance and how it's been kept.

[João Rico]

Well, by the photo, i think i know who is the seller. Isn't the nick "Visao.prt"?
If it is, i already bought some ports from him. Really honest my transactions. This guy has a montruous collection on Ports and Madeiras

[Andy Velebil]

Jose,

Welcome to I've sent you a private message, if you could check it please. Thank you

[Roy Hersh]

Jose,

This evening I will be having dinner with one of the world's greatest Madeira authorities. I asked him about the bottle you are interested in and here was his response:

I would guess, including buyer's premium, $800-$1000, but it's hard to say given conditions today and not knowing how high-profile the sale is. In a low-profile sale it may go for less.

So that should give you a guideline. I personally believe that if you can get this particular bottle for anywhere under $700 you'd be doing very well, if the condition is as stated. I hope this helps and provides you with a basic guideline going into the sale. Best of luck and please do let us know how it turns out. We'd love to see you come back here to share some of your enthusiasm for Madeira too!

[jose9]

Thank you all for your most interesting replies. João Rico is right, this bottle comes from "visao.prt" who has a huge collection and is a serious seller. I'll try to have it at an intersting price. But I'm afraid this wine might be over the hill. I was amazed by the oldest Madeira wine I had ever had, a 1910 Cossart Gorgon Sercial tasted in 2003 at the Old Blandy's Wine Lodge in Funchal, but this bottle is one century older...
Thanks again, I'll let you know if I got it or not.
Best
José Vouillamoz

[Roy Hersh]

It will all boil down to when it was bottled and where/how it has been stored all these years. It takes Kryptonite to kill good Madeira and the age should not be an issue.

[Peter Reutter]

Even though I too have bought bottles from visao.pt and he has a serious bussiness, I am curious about one thing: What happened to the signature on the label? Washed out? Besides that concern it looks like an interesting bottle. Good luck at the auction!
Peter

[Andreas Platt]

Update on this: it went for EUR 189,- and what is most interesting is, that besides myself, noone was interested in this in the end...

Well, i have seen Peter's comment but i guess i will trust Antonio/visao that this is genuine.

Andreas

P.S.: Peter, i would love to talk to you about the Bo... is there any way i can contact you? Or you just give me a call sometime 2morrow?

[jose9]

The final price was EUR 233.-, and of course I was interested in this wine. Andreas, are you the lucky winner ? Unfortunately I offered a too conservative bid at EUR 222.-, and I could not increase on time and I have been outbid... Too bad, hopefully next time I'll get a 19th Madeira to taste.
About Peter's doubts on the label, I think there was no usual Blandy's signature for this bottle because Blandy's bought the wine from some other old producer. Indeed, I found a similar but empty bottle sold on ebay:

http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=048c3xi1.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06563fe2.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=08393zi4.jpg

This is rare stuff! Only 240 bottles made!

By the way, is there a serious and independant old Madeira vintage chart? I could not find this info on this forum or elsewhere.

Thank you all for your interest.
José Vouillamoz

[Gary Banker]

I have a bottle of Blandy's 1884 Sercial BG with a similar style of label. I was told that the style of label was used in the 1950s and 60s, but can not confirm that. The signature on the back label and the sequence number of the bottle are also rather faded.

For a vintage chart, check http://www.madeirawineguide.com.

Gary

[Eric Ifune]

I also have some Blandy's with a similar label. It was Mannie Berk of the Rare Wine Co. who said that Blandy's used these type labels in the 50's and 60's. I would trust Mannie on any info about Madeira.
The signature was on a back label, but several of my bottles are missing the back label. The Madiera Wine Guide has a list of released vintage Madeiras. It's not complete however, and is growing continuously.

[Roy Hersh]

Eric,

Nobody can deny that Mannie knows more about Madeira than probably anyone else in America. Maybe two or three others in the world Including folks on the island have the breadth of knowledge and have researched the subject as thoroughly as he. Are you aware that he is in the midst of a book on Madeira? I wanted to get him to talk about that last Saturday night, but he is not one for self-promotion. It is going to be a modernized version somewhat akin to the N. Cossart book. I can't wait!


Gary,

You allude to the fact that you like your Madeira on the dry side of the spectrum, but only mention Verdelho and Terrantez. At times Terrantez can show sweet as can Verdelho ... both can come close to a Boal on occasion or on the other end of the spectrum both can sometimes show up seemingly bone dry. Do you not like Sercial?

[Gary Banker]

Roy,

I like sercial and also liked the 1927 bastardo from D'Oliveira, which was the driest madeira that I've had. I mentioned only verdelho and terrantez in that post because I was discussing the the D'Oliveira meio seco 15-year and I thought that they were the closest comparison.

Even with my limited experience - only one madeira older than 1920 - I've seen a broad range of sweetness in both verdelho and (especially) terrantez. I just finished a bottle of Barbeito Reserve Terrantez and thought that it was the sweetest and least acidic that I have had. My impression at this point is that it appears to be a matter of house styles.

[Roy Hersh]

Would you like to buy my remaining '27 D'Olly Bastardo? :?

Hey, why don't you join us from MA in January at our 1st offline. If you come, I'd open another '27 for you! Seriously.

[Gary Banker]

Roy,

Let me think about the 27 Bastardo. I still have two left. I will try to get to the offline in January if I am here. I'm only forty miles from Boston.