Selo de Garantia

[Alan Gardner]

While researching some older bottles of 1908 Bual (to try and find out when they were bottled) I started with the Selo de Garantia – hoping that the code would assist in determining when bottling took place (and hence a guide as to whether these were bottled a significant time apart). Of course, I should have started with this forum as in an unrelated thread I found this comment from Peter Reutter:

“The IVM issues complete batches of paper seals to the producers, and the producers use the seals up as it fits them. So there is no way of telling the bottling date from the seal. Also as far as I know the producers keep little track of the seals and the date they used them. As they see the current batch of seals run out, they just get another one from the IVM.”

This raises (for me) a much bigger question – so I’m raising it as a new thread rather than contacting Peter directly.

As basic background, here’s a description of one of the functions of the Madeira Wine Institute:

It is the Institute’s responsibility to ensure that Madeira’s wine is authentic, controlling every step. Only then is the wine granted its official stamp (selo de garantia) and individual number.

My original quest was to determine a bottling date. However, if the seal is (probably) not a definitive guide (apparently each producer MAY keep records relating seal # to the date of bottling, but this is NOT a REQUIREMENT) – there appears to be no central registry, this raises a bigger question.
How can the institute control every step if the key one for the consumer (the actual bottling) does not seem to be controlled?

Oh, and in case I’m totally off track, here are the Selo de Garantia details for my two bottles:

No: 629898-B
No: 523763-K

[Peter Reutter]

Oh yes,
the IVM (or IVBAM nowadays) works in mystirious ways... To be honest, I never quite understood the very laid back attitude of controlling the bottling of Maderia wine and the whole seal-issue. After all the seal is supposed to GUARANTEE a certain standard of quality.
The IVM (and I do not intend to be rude) was in a long slumber during the 1980ies and 1990ies. But as far as I can tell, things have allready changed and will very likely change even more in the future. I very much hope that the whole Selo de Garantia-issue will change as well, giving serious collectors a chance to find out about their bottles.
May be someone from the IVBAM follows this thread and would like to comment on this?
I have mailed them so often for old bottles, bolo de mel recipies, technical questions and never got an answer, so I guess writing another email is just no use...

[Alan Gardner]

Hi Peter,
Of course, I expected (and hoped for) a response from you, as it was your comment that prompted this thread.
I had Googled the topic and yours was the only 'questioning' item I found. ALL the others just repeat the mantra about 'guaranteeing the provenance' - often suggesting one shouldn't buy bottles without the selo.
I wonder if anybody REALLY cares whether a bottle has the selo. Has anyone who reads this Board ever declined to purchase a bottle because it had no selo?

[Peter Reutter]

Dear Alan,
the absence of a Selo de Garantia has never stopped me from buying a bottle. In fact many famous bottles (Quinta do Serrado for an example) neither have an IVM/IVBAM or JNV seal. A tasting note from people whose palate you trust, a reliable source and a good producer are by far more important than a little strip of paper, especially when nobody from the official institutions really seems to care about this Selo de Garantia.
It is a sad issue, and even more though because Madeira wine has had a long history of fakes from Spain, the Azores, the Canaries and so on.

[Reidar Andersen]

Dear Alan,

As Peter said , no real guarantee for anything , BUT I looked on two bottles I bought myself at MWC in 1986
both AO-SM which MWC bought from D'Oliveiras. I think they were bottled 1985. This was before they started repainting.

They had the following seals:

1910 S- K 527664
1882 V- K 525371

Very close to your K number. So that one is maybe from 1985....
?? :hello:

Reidar

[Alan Gardner]

Thanks Reidar. Certainly all evidence I collected suggested early-mid 80's for its 'sale'. But no real evidence on when it might have been bottled (although I assume the two dates were indeed fairly close).
It seems a little surprising to me that the Selo is virtually useless. But that speaks more about governing and administrative bodies than producers - the latter having been fairly reliable in my experience.
Ultimately, of course, it's the content of the bottle that's most important - and my tasting notes will be posted 'soon' (a hectic week thus far).