Is there something wrong with me ? !!

[mekons]

From the earlier post you'll see I'm relatively new to the pleasures of Port. During the last month I've tasted '77 Warre, '83 Grahams, '99 Q.do Crasto LBV, '86 Grahams Malvedos and last night, to celebrate our new daughters birth, a '77 Taylor. They are all lovely but, I think I prefer the 20 yr. Tawnies. Am I sick ? I was excited to read about the new 50 yr. release and would like some thoughts on different Colheitas and getting deeper into the Tawnies. Browsing through the suppliers, I don't see many quality Colheitas available. There must be some delightful, tawny type wines out there and any help is very much appreciated.

Dan

[Mike Kerr]

How can your tastebuds be wrong? I think your tastes are more in line with my own, actually.

While I'm learning to really enjoy VP's and LBV's, my favourites are the 20-year tawnies. I'm still trying to figure out which producer is my ultimate favourite, but I tend to prefer the 20y. Unfortunately they're relatively expensive. I haven't tried any colheitas yet, but I expect I'll enjoy them just as much. I really enjoy the caramel and oaky flavours that come out.

At a port class I attended, the instructor said that "real" port drinkers are tawny drinkers. Not sure how much stock I put in that, but it was encouraging when I realized I liked the tawnies more than the others.

You're not sick!

Mike.

[pgwerner]

They are all lovely but, I think I prefer the 20 yr. Tawnies. Am I sick ?

No, it just means that you clearly prefer a Tawny style over a Ruby/Vintage style. Now if you'd said you preferred Graham's Six Grapes over '83 Grahams, I might think you were sick.

I'm not much of a tawny drinker myself, mainly because when it comes to highly oxidized wines, I prefer 10+ year-old Malmsey, or 20-year-old Moscatel de Setubal. Not that I'd ever turn down a good Tawny that was offered to me, though.

Peter

[Mario Ferreira]

Dan - please note that a few years ago when I was brought to the Port Wine world, and after tasting the several types of Port, I choose the 20Y Tawny as my preferred type of Port. I got into that conclusion after I was given a Sandeman 20Y Tawny a couple hours later a spice food dinner. That slight chilled Sandeman 20Y Tawny did really make an impact on me that I could never forget !!!. So, the 20Y Tawnies become my preferred Ports for years and only more recently I found out about the wonders of the fresh fruit driven Ports such as LBVs and young Vintages. And later about Old Vintages as well.

Old Tawny Ports are fine wines. Tawnies are more complex and evolved wines.

Anyway, this is just to let you know that I can understand pretty well what you wrote above. :)
I guess that some people are more into fruit driven wines and others are more into evolved & complex wines.

b/r. /Mario.

[Roy Hersh]

The types mentioned Tawny and Colheita are both wood aged and that is the biggest difference. Vintage Port and even traditional styles of LBV age in the bottle. So wood-aged vs. bottle aged becomes the discussion.

In Portugal itself, the native Portuguese have always consumed FAR MORE of the wood-aged Ports and therefore the Portuguese producers "generally" made the best examples ... especially the Colheitas which are fabulous when you can find top examples (which is not hard ... just expensive).

The British market was always the "driver" of Vintage Ports until the mid-1990s when the USA surpassed the UK in Vintage Port purchases. That is why that until this decade the majority of the best Vintage Ports were made by the British Port Shippers.

Things are changing these days but that is a long story. If you read my 2003 Vintage Port Forecast (check the articles section of the website) you'll get a better explanation but I don't want to stray from the point here.

Whether you prefer Vintage/LBV/Crusted bottle aged Ports or the wood-aged Port style is strictly a matter of your own innate taste preferences. There is neither right nor wrong in this. I cut my teeth and started my collection with Vintage Ports in the early 1980s. It was not until the early 1990s that I really started to appreciate Colheitas and "Tawny Ports with an indication of age" which are the 10, 20, 30 and 40 year olds.

My palate has changed. Now I love both and really enjoy exploring the wood aged Ports (I have been jaded by tasting the many 20th century Ports over and over) even more, although I probably still drink more Vintage Ports while in the USA.

So don't feel weird that you prefer wood aged Ports. Your taste might change in time too. But go with your palate and buy what you like. The Colheitas and Tawny Ports mostly offer very good values, even though the really old ones do get pricey. You can always check with us here for advice on what you see in your market place and we won't steer you wrong.

[mekons]

Well, I just returned from the liquor store where I found these Colheitas on the shelf. Does anyone have any opinions or thoughts on these wines. Thank You ! Offley '85, Krohn '94, Porto Pocas '82, Porto Pocas '70. I'm guessing that the excellent vintage years for bottle aged port are also excellent for Colheitas.

Dan

[Roy Hersh]

Actually there is no specific relationship between great Colheitas and Vintage Port years, at least from my experience. Your mileage may vary.

In order for us to be better guides with the wines above, would you please let us know the prices?

[mekons]

Interesting. Can you briefly explain why grapes from 1970 wouldn't neccesarily create a better Colheita as well as a great Vintage Port ? These bottles are down at the neighborhood Bevmo. Offley '85 $ 45,
Krohn '94 $ 25, Pocas '92 $ 30, Pocas '70 $60. ( I jumped the gun and bought the '70 before I heard any responses here ) Thanks for the help !

[Mike Kerr]

Just a quick note in between responses... the price points on colheitas more often than not are tied to their bottling dates. Colheitas can be bottled from the same vintage year several times depending on the supply from the producer (and consumer demand). The colheitas are basically tawnies from one vintage and age in oak until they are bottled. If the colheita is a '70 and is bottled in 95, then you have a 25 year old tawny essentially, except it is from one vintage, not a blend (as a normal tawny would be). I recently purchased a '77 colheita that I thought was a steal of a price, then I found it was bottled in '86, so it is only a 9 year-old. Being $60 I'd guess yours was bottled sometime in the late 90's?

Either way, enjoy it!

Mike.

[mekons]

This particular wine was bottled in 2004 and carries this wording which I'm sure is familiar to the experienced Portmen; "...........and having in consideration its excellent quality th I.D.V.D.P. allow the indication of the vintage year on the label. " Are the grapes from the 1970 harvest or not ? I'll enjoy the wine either way !

Dan

[pgwerner]

Colheitas can be bottled from the same vintage year several times depending on the supply from the producer (and consumer demand). The colheitas are basically tawnies from one vintage and age in oak until they are bottled. If the colheita is a '70 and is bottled in 95, then you have a 25 year old tawny essentially, except it is from one vintage, not a blend (as a normal tawny would be).

Are Tawny Ports like Madeiras in that they do almost no aging once bottled?

Peter

[Mike Kerr]

Dan, the grapes would indeed be from the 1970 harvest. They would have made their port blend, put it in oak, and it would have sat ageing there until 2004 when it was bottled.

Pete, I asked the same question a week or so ago. I think there are two schools of thought, but the general consensus is that no ageing or very little ageing occurs once it is bottled. Having said that, older tawnies throw sediment, so I can't help but think that some sort of "ageing" is occurring, even if it is significantly retarded.

Mike.

[Roy Hersh]

I agree with Dirk van der Niepoort, master Colheita and Garrafeira producer who strongly believes that Colheitas can and do improve in the bottle. Not all of them though. Some producers fine their wines others filter, some do both and some do neither.

I had three bottles of well-aged Colheita less than 2 weeks ago. The tasting notes are in the PORT FORUM (Atlanta tasting) and there was an 1853, 1870 and 1896 Colheita ... just to name a few of the great wines that we had brought for this masterful tasting.

Since many did not believe that Colheitas could age, I was there to prove a point. The two younger bottles (how do you call 1870 and 1896 "younger"?) were Royal Oporto bottles that were ancient, not recently bottled. Sadly, there was no bottling date on them. They are in my Port bottle musuem now and I have gone over them with a magnifying glass to check everywhere. Anyway, these bottles threw an incredible amount of crust. When sediment is left inside Port, whether it is a Vintage Port, LBV, Crusted or Colheita ... the wine continues its evolution. That is not always a good thing, but most often it is.

I don't understand how the myth got started that Colheitas don't age in the bottle, but I have to believe it was a British retailer who did bottling back in the day or a British Port Shipper, since they tend to produce Colheitas that do not have sediment due to fining, filtration or both. In those cases, I do agree that there will be no improvement, or at least, no evolution in the bottle.

Just my $.02