Decanting Vs. Slow Aeration ?

[Paul David]

Roy: Thanks for the Hersh Method Article- I agree completely with the idea of longer decanting times. I was wondering if you have also experimented with the long slow aeration in the bottle vs. straight out decanting. (i.e. removing the cork & letting the bottle stay open upright in the cellar for a long period of time & than decanting before serving to remove the sediment). This method is used by some for older wines but I have not heard about it being applied to VP ? has anyone tried it and what were the results?

[Roy Hersh]

Paul,

You are bringing up the Audoze method used by Francois in France and the thread he had going on EBob. This is not effective for Vintage Port for two reasons, IMO.

a. it does nothing to help remove the sediment which is a must with Vintage Port (or other bottle aged Ports).

b. Although Mr. Audoze is one of the most impressive individuals on that BB, I am not convinced that without increasing the surface area ... moreso in Port than other reds ... that the amount of oxidation that takes place would be sufficient.

But this is just heresay, as I have NOT undertaken the "experiment" that Francois has suggested to others with their red wines. Why don't you pop a cork and give it a try and let us know how it works for you> We would very much appreciate your feedback!

BTW, my last name has no "C" in it and as someone who drinks in my brother's home, you should be able to spell HIS last name right.

[Paul David]

My sincerest apologies about the typo Mr. Hersh...{or is it Harsh.... ;o)}.

I have used what is now referred to the Audoze method over the years, admittedly mostly for young red wines. A friend who grew up in Normandy told me that that's how his dad used to treat young Chateaunef when he grew up -so this is something that has been practiced in France for many years. For the benefit of those that are not familiar with the topic: Mr. Francois Audoze (an esteemed member of Ebob board) suggests that slow aeration (or is it airing?) is a superior method when dealing with older wines. I have never tried it with port either. I did notice improvement in older bottles of port which I treated with Nitrogen & kept in the Fridge overnight. So this, combined with your decanting article got me wondering about the potential benefit of applying this method to VP.
I addressed the issue of sediment by suggesting a decant before serving.

In the interim I was hoping that maybe someone here had the opportunity to try this. You have mentioned before that there is a good contingency of international members on FTLOP and since the slow aerating is more prevalent in Europe maybe someone has tried this with port.

Roy -I love your idea of port research...In the interest of science I second your call for an experiment. I suggest pouring half a bottle very carefully into a 375 and the other half into a decanter and comparing the decanted port after maybe 4-8 hrs to the open bottle after 24-36 hrs. Obviously the larger the sample population the more accurate the findings. Why not conduct an experiment with multiple members of this board over a particular weekend and we can all compare notes.

A call to arms -Anyone in ?

[Derek T.]

Paul,

I think your proposed experiment would fail due to pouring the first )or second) half of the bottle into a 375ml - surely this would expose the wine to air during pouring and would not be the same as pulling the cork and leaving the wine standing with only the surface area of the neck exposed to the air?

Perhaps, in the interest of science, we all need to do this with 2 x 750ml bottles just to be safe

Derek

[Paul David]

Derek, I have been away for a few days- sorry for the late reply: The are several reasons I suggested splitting a bottle. First I don't have multiple bottles of old port from the same batches (-unfortunately). In my case I can contribute multiple bottles from 94 or 97 but will have to split something from the 70's. In my older ports I also find that there is a lot of bottle to bottle variations probably due to the fact that I have to purchase these older bottles from various sources. So in my case, opening a bottle & splitting it will assure no bottle to bottle variation. I agree that it's not as good a solution, but pouring the contents directly into a split (carefully) will minimize the exposure to air somewhat -definitely less air than your traditional double decanting. Of course this is why I suggested that we try to get more people partaking- it will be a better representation. Hopefully we can have a few folks with deep cellars who have multiple bottles from the same case from older vintages. So now we have you, me & Roy -we need a few more...

[Roy Hersh]

The Symington's teach that if you open a 750 and pour directly into a 375 and use a vacuvin rubber stopper (a cork would work too) and putting the bottle in refrigeration, that:

... should consume the 375 ml bottle within 2 weeks.

[Paul David]

A few weeks... Open port dosen't stick around that long around here

[Roy Hersh]

Paul,

In this case, you are "choiring to the preacher"

[Paul David]

Nice
Roy, back to the experiment; to get more BB members involved should we bring this up in the main Port Forum? As the Big Puba of FTLOP I think that if you suggest this for an upcoming holiday weekend (maybe Easter weekend) we will probably get some good participation

[Roy Hersh]

Has anybody tried this yet?

[John Danza]

Has anybody tried this yet?

I haven't, but I use the method all the time on Bordeaux. I think port needs more air than the slow aeration can give it, because it's make-up is different. With the level of alcohol from the neutral spirits, I think the decanting action is what helps to tame it. Since it's a great idea to decant port several hours before service, adding even more air time, I can't imagine how long it would take to get the same effect with slow aeration.

[Derek T.]

I stick by my answer in 2006 in that I think the only valid way to do this is with two bottles. Pouring half "carefully" into a half bottle still fills the wine with air so that just isn't testing the theory.

I am happy to try this by opening two bottles of modest VP (perhaps Morgan 91?), decanting one and leaving the other standing upright with the cork removed. I think it would be necessary to have a long decant to allow any difference to be detectable so would suggest 24-48 hours before tasting. I could either do this at home and report my own thoughts or do it in advance of the next offline I attend in London and gather more data from more palates.

Is anyone else willing to put up two bottles to do this?

[Andy Velebil]

The only thing I would caution about using two bottles, especially older ones, is to make sure they were stored together. You wouldn't want to use a 1985 Fonseca stored in an active cellar and one which had been stored in a kitchen cupboard all its life. That way there shouldn't be any bottle variation that would taint the experiment.

[Derek T.]

Agreed. I did mean using two bottles from the same case but wasn't clear about that point.