French wine exports in serious decline

[Roy Hersh]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Your thoughts?

[Andy Velebil]

Haven't read the article yet...but from the title, two words...lower prices

Lets just face it and be honest. While there is some very good wine coming from this region, there is also a ton of over priced plonk. When a 91 or 92 point rated French wine is selling at $200-500 a bottle, that is totally outrageous. I dare say they shot themselves in the foot when they jacked prices through the roof. There are far better values that score the same or better at a fraction of the price of many French wines.

I feel the Grand Cru ranking system is soley so certain Chateau's can use it to justify their high prices. IIRC, someone had listed the scores for a Grand Cru Chateau and those of a second tier house. On average the second tier producer had better scores and sold at a fraction of the price of the Grand Cru. Now that's a problem.

I'm by no means a French wine expert, not even close. I know just enough to be dangerous, so someone correct me if I'm off base here. But I've been reading an old book on Port and it talked about how in the 1700's Port became extremely popular, prices got insanely high, production levels went way up, then quality went down hill. That led to a massive sales drop as people no longer wanted them. it almost collapsed the Port industry.

I see the French in a similar light. There is a ton wine being produced in France, probably too much IMO. Prices have gone up to a point where most people can no longer afford them, at least for the Grand Cru's. The price vs. quality IMO has gotten so far out of whack it's generally not worth buying. Although their wine making techniques are getting better, there is still a ton of dirty wine making...Brett is a flaw no matter how you look at it (although I do admit to enjoying a small amount of it in some wines). There seems to be a lot of bottle variation even with in the same case of the same wines (reminds me of Port from the late 70's early 80's.). And they have a stuffy attitude that they are better than everyone else.

So while I do buy a small amount of French wine each year, my money is better spent on Cali wines where I can at least have interaction with the winemakers, visit the property, etc. Not to mention get a similar, or better scored wine, for far less money.

just my

[Moses Botbol]

I am going to buy French wine no matter what. Whether it's Grand Cru or an unheard Ch. depends on pricing available to me. France's wine regions or so storied and full of terrior; it's the most attractive wines for me to age. I do not get tired of Burgundy, Rhone or Bdx. France holds the majority of dry wine in my cellar. I do like CA wines, but they are not as close to my heart. Perhaps I am missing the boat on world wines, but ignorance can be bliss too...

Europe is still the epicenter of wine for me.

[Eric Menchen]

Brett is a flaw no matter how you look at it (although I do admit to enjoying a small amount of it in some wines).

Hey now. Brett is a fermenting organism just like many others, fascinating in how it can be coaxed to perform differently under different conditions. And while it looks funky different under a microscope from most other yeast, that's just part of its character :)

To the issue at hand, I'm not at all surprised. French exports are down. Exports of wine from a few other countries went up (Italy comes to mind), not enough to fill the gap, but enough to make me think there are a number of things going on here. One is the overall economy. People are still buying wine, but many are buying cheaper, and that's why the value of French exports went down even more than the volume. Regardless of the economy, I think people, at least in the US, are also looking to other sources a) to be trendy, and b) because those other sources are providing good value. When people come to our house they regularly bring over wine. One friend brought something French a few months ago. Since then we've probably received six other bottles from Argentina, Chile, and Australia.

[Moses Botbol]

Brett is a fermenting organism just like many others, fascinating in how it can be coaxed to perform differently under different conditions. And while it looks funky different under a microscope from most other yeast, that's just part of its character :)

One friend brought something French a few months ago. Since then we've probably received six other bottles from Argentina, Chile, and Australia.

What would CdP be without a little Brett?

I am the only one of my friends that would bring a French wine (under $30 price point) over on a regular night. Most of them do not even like French wine that much. These are my regular friends, not my port drinking buddies (which are friends too..).

Nights where we go big time (port buddies), it's assumed French, followed by Italy. CA is a very rare event.

[Heather Hathwell]

Let's not forget that California is selling off its stock at discounts (anybody see the flyer from Mannie this week for 50% off what are presumably cult wines?). And I've always been of the opinion that CA wine has been far more overvalued than the French ever were. It's been ages since I had an Italian that was worth remembering..... seems to me it was an 1985 Castello dei Rampollo Sammarco that I shared with some friends in 99 or '00. Every now and then I make another attempt and I'm almost always disappointed, though the Montefalco was an exception but not a mind blowing one.

For me, it's Douro, Alentejo or French, period (occasionally Spanish). And there are plenty of non-export French wines that are perfectly affordable and offer 10x the character of any California wine at 1/3 the price and often less. It should not be judged by the export market or by the random cheap swill or inartfully made wine that has inspired some ridicule on this board; that would be like a foreigner judging California by the Thunderbird special or slightly better at the 7-Eleven. Patience and persistence in discovery is a virtue.

[Brian C.]

Someone sent me this article on 2005 Bordeaux wines and how they've come down drastically in price.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 00564.html

[Frederick Blais]

A few thoughts....

France, like every other countries is making bad wines. 20-30 years ago, this wine from France was able to find a place on the shelves because there was practically no real competitions. Nowadays with the competition and constellation of mass producing wines, bad wines, either from France or other countries are staying locally if they are not sold very cheap by marketing genious like little Penguin or One Buck Chuck(something like that).

Since France is drinking half what they use to in the 60's they are confronted with a big problem. They are not prepared or organized for mass export and they don't drink as much... overproduction gets in the way pretty quick.

Price of top Bordeaux Chateau is not in my opinion a problem. It represents 2% of the volume, maybe less. So it is still a great marketing tool to attract people to buy French wines under 20$, as they think they get some of its prestige. Just like people buying cheap Cali cab when they read that Napa Cab bombs are beating down Bordeaux top estate in blind tasting competitions.

[Eric Menchen]

Price of top Bordeaux Chateau is not in my opinion a problem. It represents 2% of the volume, maybe less. So it is still a great marketing tool to attract people to buy French wines under 20$, as they think they get some of its prestige.

Sounds a bit like VP then.

[Moses Botbol]

Do you think the consumer has become “anti-French” a bit? I know a lot of wine drinkers that won’t even go through the French section. Lot’s of stores do little to promote French wines outside of just stacking cases up with a professional review. The bottle labels do little to get the non-traditional wine buyer excited.

The lower end buyers want fruit bombs that do not taste of dirt or mineral. The want Merlot, Cab, Pinot, Zin; grapes they are familiar with. Cab Franc & Gamay; no way (at least for them). Perhaps it’s just a cycle and the consumer will come around overtime? If the Dollar was strong against the Euro, perhaps things would be different?

[Michael M.]

A few thoughts....

France, like every other countries is making bad wines. 20-30 years ago, this wine from France was able to find a place on the shelves because there was practically no real competitions. Nowadays with the competition and constellation of mass producing wines, bad wines, either from France or other countries are staying locally if they are not sold very cheap by marketing genious like little Penguin or One Buck Chuck(something like that).

Unfortunatly even producers of good quality do have big problems since that time (e.g. those of Muscadet).

For me France still is the land of milk and honey, also in the matter of wine. What Moses said they do have terroir i. e. real character. A paradise for those who do not prefer drinking jam or wooden soup and uniformed products. Imo in France you can still find wines with an unbeatable ratio of quality to price. Prices for top notch Beaujolais Crus or top notch Loire wines are almost ridicolous. For one thing: 2005 Vouvray demi-sec from Foreau or Huet at retail price of less than 20 EUR.

Michael

[Moses Botbol]

Prices for top notch Beaujolais Crus or top notch Loire wines are almost ridicolous.

Keep that one a secret! Most of the my everyday French wines are one or the other. Granted they are not everyone's taste, but certainly mine!

[Michael M.]

Prices for top notch Beaujolais Crus or top notch Loire wines are almost ridicolous.

Keep that one a secret! Most of the my everyday French wines are one or the other. Granted they are not everyone's taste, but certainly mine!

Be shure not to be alone

[Brian C.]

I like to go off the beaten path when it comes to French wines. I found a $12 bottle of syrah from the south of France, and a $13 bottle of Minervois (60% carignan, 30% syrah, 10% grenache) that were both very drinkable. More on the beaten path, I found a $20 bottle of Macon Villages that I really liked, and I'm one who generally shies away from Chardonnay.

[Bryan Robinson]

though the Montefalco was an exception but not a mind blowing one.

I can't agree with your take on Italian wines, but this line me me stop. I'm a huge fan of Sagrantino di Montefalco, and would be the first to admit they have some consistency issues. I've had rather plain bottles, and truly outstanding ones. That varietal is rare enough that I don't often find someone who has even tasted the wine.

As for the French wines, my wife refuses to have them in the collection. It has nothing to do with quality, or price, or international politics. She objects solely on their caste system, and their traditional lack of varietal designation. That last part is changing, but she still views the French winemakers as too elitist for her taste. I know when to pick my battles, and France doesn't make the cut. When we go to the wine store, we never enter the French section.

[Eric Menchen]

As for the French wines, my wife refuses to have them in the collection. ... She objects solely on their caste system ...

I can certainly understand that objection. It won't stop me from buying French, but it will stop me from spending a lot of money on a French bottle. Really, do you think that designations made 150+ years ago still apply today? Nothing has changed since then?

[Andy Velebil]

As for the French wines, my wife refuses to have them in the collection. ... She objects solely on their caste system ...

I can certainly understand that objection. It won't stop me from buying French, but it will stop me from spending a lot of money on a French bottle. Really, do you think that designations made 150+ years ago still apply today? Nothing has changed since then?

Bryan and Eric,

Totally agree with both of you. Its hard for me to justify buying a first growth that is 2-4 times more than a second or third growth when the first growth isn't as a good as the others. While I understand the caste system and the reason why it was implemented back then, in this day and age, I think it really should be done away with so the wines can speak for themselves.

[Roy Hersh]

Its hard for me to justify buying a first growth that is 2-4 times more than a second or third growth when the first growth isn't as a good as the others.

Andy,

Do you collect Bordeaux? I had no idea you bought wines that were not either from CA or Portugal.

[Andy Velebil]

Its hard for me to justify buying a first growth that is 2-4 times more than a second or third growth when the first growth isn't as a good as the others.

Andy,

Do you collect Bordeaux? I had no idea you bought wines that were not either from CA or Portugal.

Shh, don't tell anyone
I don't have a lot, but what I do have is mostly too young to open so they are aging in the cellar for their day to come.