What would you do?

[Peter W. Meek]

As long as the Beneficio is in place

Maybe that's the key to keeping port around?

This is an aspect of the Beneficio that I hadn't considered. Money doesn't appear by magic. (Actually, money does appear by magic; what doesn't appear by magic is true value - buying power on the world stage.) If the Beneficio pays farmers more to grow grapes for Port, where does the money come from? Does Portugal bring in enough money from the outside world by being the world's Port producer to make these payments (or tax reductions or whatever)? Or is our enjoyment of Port based on a general taxation of all Portugese people (or all Portugese grape growers) which gets transferred to the growers of grapes for Port wine?

I recall the Beneficio being discussed before on FTLOP, but I'm afraid I skipped over the details. Now I see that it may be of considerable importance to me. Is my enjoyment of Port being carried by the shoulders of people who get little or no benefit from the money I spend on Port?

I have never been able to enjoy vacations in places where my amenities and the service are based on keeping people in peonage. I would hate to think of Port wine as a similar situation. I don't think I could enjoy it if that were the case.

[Moses Botbol]

This is an aspect of the Beneficio that I hadn't considered. Money doesn't appear by magic.

I would hate to think of Port wine as a similar situation. I don't think I could enjoy it if that were the case.

I had never considered it either until Fred’s comment and what conclusions I could derive. Point being is that at a minimum, producing port has to be valuable enough for the people involved to make a living. If another product is more viable, eventually port would lose. If it takes the Govt to do it, so be it. Port is integral to Portugal’s legacy and persona. It has to be protected as a national treasure.

[Andy Velebil]

Gosh I love where this thread is heading. Although drifting from the original thread topic, this is turning into a good one….so don’t stop now, keep it up guys!

First, it’s important to remember that we’re talking both large AND small producers. The dynamic effects for a small producer are far greater than for the large ones. That said, Fred is absolutely right on both points.

The Beneficio pays more for grapes destined for Port production than a producer can make selling the same grapes for table wine. Producing top quality table wines also require a lot more work, not only in the fields, but later during fermentation and aging. It’s also far more costly to produce top table wines as there is the annual cost of expensive new barrels. Not to mention all the costs associated with selling a new vintage every year.

With the Beneficio still in place the small farmers make far more money than they would producing the equivalent amount of grapes for table wines. The problem is one can only produce so much Port each year, as determined by the government. The amount of aguardente a producer is allowed to purchase annually to make Port is limited and changes yearly based on a number of factors. This can drastically effect how much Port a small grower produces to sell to a large company. Or how much raw grapes a large producer purchases from a small grower.

Dry wines may be a more stable source of income for a small grower, year in and year out. But many of these small growers also lack the capital to overhaul their vineyards and Adega’s to produce top quality table wine grapes. The long–term handshake deals with large Port companies have also helped keep these small producers in business through tough times. One only has to look at the 1975 vintage where approximately 3 times as much VP was produced. The producers knew that their small growers were in dire financial problems and they bought all the grapes they could to support them and prevent them from going out of business.

It really is a double edge sword right now. There is no doubt the Beneficio is a broken system and needs to be overhauled. In another thread Adrian Bridge speculated that the Beneficio may no longer be around in 10 years time. I’m not sure that is the right answer or not, but we are witnessing a very interesting time in the history of Port production.

[oscarquevedo]

As long as the Beneficio is in place, they make more money than if they would do dry wines, believe me! Plus, making wines requires more effort in the vineyard than Port for equivalent quality.

This is what Adrian Bridge from TFP complains about: the beneficio is subsidizing small producers to promote dry wines: the grapes for Douro wines are artificially low due to the higher price of Port grapes/authorization (which annual production is determined by group of people).

Regarding Andy's question, I would organize a Twitter Port Wine taste live. I would ship a free sample of Port for all those people who wanted to join the tasting. At the day schedule we would have thousands of young people talking about Port with their friends. Word of mouth.

Anyway, I understand the preferences to keep Port secret!

[Roy Hersh]

Port can remain a quasi-traditional drink and at the same time, expand its market share. I see no reason why the great categories that exist today can not be controlled (as to their popularity) through yields, bottling runs and allocations. Have no fear of the Port becoming too popular.

It is never going main stream like Champagne, even if it does gain in popularity. The new categories are where the younger people will come to first be introduced to Port. It is obvious that the people who are reading is absolutely an entirely different consumer than the Port trade is trying to attract with these new Ports. If you are afraid that these people will eventually be buying up the rare Ports ... by the time they are that into it ... your cellars will be full, so don't lose any sleep.

I understand when our forum users disparage Pink, Rose or other Ports from the new category. I must admit it surprises me this persists, not because their opinion is not valid, but because they are putting expectations to these Ports which are clearly intended for those who've never had Port in the past and is just being introduced. The point is not whether we like it or if it even reminds "us" of what we consider to be Port wine. It is a drink which will be attractive to many who try it. That is a start and a good thing.

The Vintage Port and Colheita lovers like us ... have nothing to worry about!

On another note, it is places like FTLOP and others like TPF etc., along with my newsletter and several producer's new BLOGs etc., that will get the word out to those that have more serious interests in Port. As voices for Port ... we are ALL ambassadors, just by being here. When I read how many bottles the Forum and newsletter recipients buy in a year ... I have little doubt that us spreading the word, is a very good thing for Port and the Port trade. I have a feeling that they are awakening to this idea and that is why they are now participating here in our Forum. As Frederick Blais coined a few years ago about FTLOP: Collective Port Wisdom

I toast you all for taking part in the mission to enjoy & promote Port wine.

[Richard Henderson]

SInce there are no limts to our imaginations here, I imagine an understated ad campaign promoting for the nightly news broadcasts as an alternative to Flomax ads!

Maybe a happy couple in separate bath tubs out doors sipping a glass of port?

[Roy Hersh]

Yes, but if I am not mistaken ... hard alcohol products were banned from TV advertisements USA by the parochial FCC, a few decades ago. Port at 20% abv, would fit into that category and not wine.

[Glenn E.]

Yes, but if I am not mistaken ... hard alcohol products were banned from TV advertisements USA by the parochial FCC, a few decades ago. Port at 20% abv, would fit into that category and not wine.

Really? It's sold in grocery stores in Washington along with wine and beer, so is Washington's definition of hard alcohol different than the FCC's?

[Richard Henderson]

The hard liqour advertising ban is no more. Jack Daniels is now advertised on TV as is Patron Tequila etc.

[Moses Botbol]

The hard liqour advertising ban is no more. Jack Daniels is now advertised on TV as is Patron Tequila etc.

I thought only on cable TV, not broadcast...

I have seen a few references to port wine on "Family Guy" and it's usually the vision of gentlemen on leather chairs...

[Andy Velebil]

I have seen a few references to port wine on "Family Guy" and it's usually the vision of gentlemen on leather chairs...

Not the image we need, thats for sure

[Richard Henderson]

I have satellite but I have seen hard liquor ads on virtually every channel. I hear hard liquor ads on radio in my car. I think the ban is gone.

[Derek T.]

One of my favorite quotes:

Nothing is less productive than to make more efficient
that which should not be done at all.

Peter and I are in total agreement.

Port production is a finite resource, especially good quality port. People who want it seek it out and buy it. The worst possible thing that could happen for all of us here is for the special category port industry to find a large new market, such as China or India, as the audience would be larger than the product can support.

I think the key is for the small producers to find a way to elbow their way through the crowd of the big boys to reach people like us in inovative ways at good prices. Producing inferior wines or trying to market those that exist today to huge un-tapped markets will change the product we know beyond recognition.

Bah- humbug

Derek

[Peter W. Meek]

One of my favorite quotes:

Nothing is less productive than to make more efficient
that which should not be done at all.

Peter and I are in total agreement.

Ah; but which Peter?

[chaad thomas]

Although I'm arriving late to this discussion, I'll chime in with my thoughts not on the broader philosophical questions that have arisen here, but on the original question of how to promote Port to the masses, keywords "to the masses."

So, to that point, celebrity.

Love it or hate it, celebrity is real, and celebrity endorsement of Port would have the effect of promoting Port to the masses (for better or for worse; this is a separate discussion that can, legitimately, go either way).

I think it was Brian C. who mentioned movies, and I wholeheartedly agree with that as a mechanism of attaching a celebrity lifestyle to Port drinking.

The more challenging question, IMO, is how to place Port within the celebrity/luxury lifestyle?

I think we need to think unconventionally here, and imagine new (maybe revived) was of consuming it. For example, Port were portrayed as the de rigueur choice for a sumptuous steak dinner (ribeye w/ Roquefort sounds good, no!), or the cool choice for sipping with collaborators while plotting a caper, I think it could grab some traction as something more than the after dinner drink that most of us enjoy it as (I'd guess).

And this gets to Roy's earlier post; maybe it isn't VP that takes center stage, but rather a chilled white Port that gets pulled out for the sexy seduction scene, or "Tawny. As in Port" that's uttered with cool assurance by Brad Pitt as he steels himself for a dangerous, high stakes negotiation.

Finally, I don't think we need to worry about the program corrupting Port-as-we-know-it, either. As in virtually every luxury brand, there are everyday lines, whether fashion, restaurants, or even automobiles. Aston Martin is about to cash in with an affordable commuter, and maybe a bottle of Ruby Port could tag along for the ride!

Forget the decades of aging, forget the cigars, forget the Boardroom...get Port on the lips of the famous now, and it will find its way to the masses.

Forgive me for being so long winded on what is basically my first post here, eh!

[Moses Botbol]

Forget the decades of aging, forget the cigars, forget the Boardroom...

No.... The heresy! The old stereotypes of port are one of the things I enjoy about port and its culture. We need to get more people living like that then change what is already tradition…
You can take my comment in a little jest, sort of… I totally agree the importance of celebrity to promote anything.

[chaad thomas]

Forget the decades of aging, forget the cigars, forget the Boardroom...

No.... The heresy! The old stereotypes of port are one of the things I enjoy about port and its culture. We need to get more people living like that then change what is already tradition…
You can take my comment in a little jest, sort of… I totally agree the importance of celebrity to promote anything.

Yes, Moses, and take my heresy with a bit of humor as well! Because heresy it certainly is, and regardless of what form Port drinking might take with the "masses," the best part of Port, the tradition of Port, should also be enjoyed by the cognoscenti, the true mavens!

[Richard Henderson]

While my ideas for an ad campaign have been somewhat tongue in cheek-and there have been some questions as to whether production would meet a significantly increased demand-- I still think and ad campaign for NV ports would be a good idea. We know that the big ad campaigns for California wines are for lower end, jug wines but those wines support the industry's higher end wines. Why wouldn't that work for port?

[Todd Pettinger]

... or the cool choice for sipping with collaborators while plotting a caper, I think it could grab some traction as something more than the after dinner drink that most of us enjoy it as (I'd guess).

Ocean's Fourteen: Scene 5:

Brad Pitt walks into the library where George Clooney and Elliot Gould are sipping from two glasses of Port, generous pours. Pitt inquires
Pitt: "Well boys, what are we going after THIS time?"
Clooney raises his glass to Pitt
Clooney:"to the... [insert impossible object to steal, say, the Mona Lisa]"
Pitt looks at Clooney, then at Gould.
Pitt: "The ...[impossible object to steal], huh?" What, have you had a few too many tonight guys? (snatches Clooney's glass just as he is about to touch it to lips.) "What have we here?"

Takes a big swill... thinks about it for a second as Clooney protests and Gouls looks on in horror.
Pitt: "Hey, this is pretty good... what is it?"
Puts empty glass down in front of Gould, picks up bottle and examines label appreciatively
Pitt: "1931 Noval Nacional Vintage Port huh? Hmm, not bad." Puts bottle down on table. "Probably the best stuff I have had in months... Too bad you have already emptied the bottle."

Gould: "I'll have you know that was a very rare bottle, extremely expensive. One of the rarest and most expensive bottles of Vintage Port on the planet. There are very few left of them in the world and you shot it back like cheap tequila" (Gould snatched decanter, which is still half-full, holding it close, defensively.)

Pitt: "Oh yeah, if it is so expensive, maybe we should steal that! ha ha ha"

Clooney and Gould exchange furtive, guilty looks.

/end scene



There you go... instant recognition for Port. Suddenly, for two weeks, "Vintage Port" becomes one of the top ten google searches.

Do we want it to go there though? I am with the "old school crew" who don't wish to see this kind of change. Yes, Roy, I hear what you are saying but I have to disagree... I believe that just as "rap" did to Cristal... big celebrity could do to Port. and it would be more rapid than you could imagine. Something I really wouldn't want to happen as it would put a lot of VP that is already pretty far out of my financial grasp, even farther so.

Just with the advent of the Internet alone, I am sure Port is already much more popular today than 10, 20 and I almost guarantee, 30-40 years ago.

Todd

[Richard Henderson]

Yesterday , on National Public Radio, there was a story about the Spanish Government's $1 million dollar ad campaign to promote sherry. They plan to promote sherry as an upscale , modern beverage. They mentioned that the current image is one of university professors in leather patch sport coats sipping sherry.
Maybe the Portuguese government needs to follow suit on port?
The story did mention what had happened to Cristal when the rock stars started drinking it.