Buying port on-line

[Michael Hann]

I'm sure this is a basic question, but here goes anyway -- this is the "Port Basics" forum. What is the story with on-line port buying? I was looking at the European Wine Resource site and seeing 1985 Graham available at $90/bottle. I paid $144/bottle at my local wine retail shop this past summer for the same port. I figure the shipping CAN'T be that expensive. I have no particular guarantees that the wine offered for sale in my local wine retail shop has been stored under pristine conditions, so I don't suppose that is a discriminator. Am I right in thinking it is a no brainer that I ought to buy such wines on-line rather than through the local retail shop? What am I missing?

Also, while we're on the subject. Is there any rule of thumb for how long you may wish to let a vintage port "settle down" after receiving it from such an on-line source? Just long enough for the sediment to settle down -- maybe a week -- or some other interval?

[Andy Velebil]

Michael,
Shopping for any wine is like going car shopping. Some stores will give you great deals while others will try to rip you off. I buy mostly on-line from a wide variety of retailers across the country and have had no issues so far. But I only deal with long established retailers with good reputations. As for shipping, I prefer to let them settle at least a couple weeks if possible, but that doesn't always happen. As having the will-power to keep my hands off some of them when they arrive is just too much

[Eric Menchen]

+1

What I find amazing in the online wine listings is the variance in prices not just from one retailer to the next, but the relative pricing within a single retailer. I haven't found one retailer that is always the cheapest or nearly the cheapest and another that is usually the most expensive. Retailer A has 1985 Dow for $50 and 1991 Croft for $110. Retailer B has 1985 Dow for $90 and the 1991 Croft for $60. As a result, over the past year I've bought from 8 online retailers, 5 B&M, and made 3 purchases through :ftlop:ortunities.

[Glenn E.]

Another +1.

I buy Port online almost exclusively these days, with the only offline purchases coming from Roy's FTLOP offerings and the occasional bottle at my local QFC (which is undergoing a remodel, so has been clearing things out as it moves around) or after a local wine tasting at a store.

There are many reliable online retailers, and I'm perfectly comfortable buying from any of them. You just have to start out small so that you can learn which e-tailers you want to trust, and then eventually move on to bigger purchases.

Port is very hardy, so short of truely extraordinary circumstances it will survive shipping with no problems at all. You'd have to ship it through Houston in August, or through International Falls in January in order to really have problems. 2nd Day Air will almost always avoid shipping problems and is still fairly reasonable. I ship UPS ground during the spring and fall because the temperatures are moderate enough nationwide that it just doesn't matter.

[Roy Hersh]

Michael,

Seek out Spec's which is all over Texas but I think they started in Austin. Now with a slew of shops, they have good buying power and are typically one of the finest organizations to buy from in your state. I have had nothing but good experiences with them.

Let your newly arrived Port sit for a week if it is from the 1980s or younger. Two weeks if 1960s to 1980 and three weeks if pre-1960. It is all about how the sediment is jostled and the age of the wine. Mine are loose windows not too different than tasting windows on a cask sample. Just empirical evidence. Since my moving to WA State in 1996, 98% of my Port is bought on the internet, with about 2% purchased in Portugal. I bet I have not purchased a combined two full cases of Port wines at brick and mortar shops in the past 9 years. Online is the way to go, unless you live near a great shop or shops with excellent selection and reasonably good pricing. Getting to know your local retailer is always a wise choice, but when you see how much further your dollars go when buying on line, it is hard to resist. And some never do.

This of course, comes to you from The Port Pusher.

[Michael Hann]

Roy and others: Thanks for your replies. Clearly the concensus is to buy on line. The settling times discussed are sort of what I expected -- glad the advice wasn't that I needed to "let it rest for six months." I'm hoping that I'll have some spare change coming my way over the holiday season that I can direct to a trial on-line purchase of a ready-to-drink, mature VP.

[Michael Hann]

Michael,

Seek out Spec's which is all over Texas but I think they started in Austin. Now with a slew of shops, they have good buying power and are typically one of the finest organizations to buy from in your state. I have had nothing but good experiences with them.

Roy: Spec's has not made its way to the Dallas area of Texas where I am located (McKinney, about 35 miles north of Dallas), but I see there is a location in College Station where my son is attending Texas A&M University. I'll add a visit to Spec's to my agenda for my next visit. It would seem negligent of me to only contribute tuition $$$ to the local economy without bolstering that further with a purchase of some kind of port. I'm also investigating their on-line facilities. The premium wine shop in the Dallas area is called Sigel's, which I suspect is only located in Dallas.

[Andy Velebil]

When buying on-line, just be aware of what temperatures are when shipping. Not only in your area, but the area it is coming from and being driven through in-route to your destination. Often times I have to wait months before the weather cools enough to have a retailer ship to me. I always ask before buying if they have a free "summer wine hold" policy, and how many months do I have that are free. Most will hold your wine for free until it's safe to ship but some, like some auctions, only give you free 30-60 days of storage then they start charging you by the case (or part thereof). That can add up real fast, so be sure to check that out before buying during certain times of the year.

[Eric Menchen]

Often times I have to wait months before the weather cools enough to have a retailer ship to me.

I've been checking the weather now to see if it will be warm enough to ship. It isn't today, but it looks OK this weekend and next week.

[Peter W. Meek]

Just got in 6 btls from Golden West Wine. When I entered them into CellarTracker, the prices seemed high compared to the Community Average Value, but I figured that a lot of those bottles were purchased a long time ago, when they were cheaper. All looked to be in good shape; one had a tiny label tear. All half-neck fills. Well-packaged. (3x Warre 77; 1x Taylor 92; 1x Taylor 94; 1x Fonseca 94)

Early Monday morning I got a call from GWW: they were watching the weather and worried that my ground shipment might get stranded by a huge snow storm in the US central plains. They asked whether I wanted to change my mind and request 2nd day air - which I did.

BTW this is where I got the corked bottle a while back. They offered me a small discount on this order (which they didn't have to). Thanks, GWW.

Opened a 77 Warre. See TNDB.

[Eric Menchen]

Those are some nice bottles Peter. I would expect to pay $85+ for the Warre, $190 for the 1992 Taylor, $130 for the 1994 Taylor (maybe, these one is elusive and I've seen a few bottles for less, and a lot for more; best price I find right now is $150), and $145 for the Fonseca. This is based on my historical wine-searcher.com searches and auction watches from the past year.

[Peter W. Meek]

Well, it wasn't as far off as I feared, based on the CT valuations. $99 for the Warre 77; $175 for the Taylor 92; $159 for the Taylor 94; and $175 for the Fonseca 94. Plus their courtesy discount and the free ground shipping credit against the 2nd day air, means it was in the ballpark. I wouldn't expect to order from a website and hope to compete for price against careful price-searching.

(I just realized: most places offering a special on free basic shipping DON'T subtract that amount if you elect a higher-priced method. Good job, GWW.)

While we're passing out praise: FEDEX's 2nd Day Air treated these wines so gently that the sediment was still all in one piece in the Warre's that I opened almost immediately. (I wonder if the "Fragile!", "Contains Alcohol: adult signature required" tags, and some invisible-to-me indication that it was insured for a bundle, made for more careful handling - hand carried by a supervisor, perhaps?)

You don't always get that careful handling from Port neophytes: I saw a bartender toss one of my VP bottles from hand to hand as he was bringing it to me. I told him to take it back to the wine room and DON'T TOUCH IT for a week (with a calm, suitable explanation as to why.) At least he didn't flip it end-over-end like someone juggling Indian Clubs.

[Eric Menchen]

Well, it wasn't as far off as I feared, based on the CT valuations. $99 for the Warre 77; $175 for the Taylor 92; $159 for the Taylor 94; and $175 for the Fonseca 94. Plus their courtesy discount and the free ground shipping credit against the 2nd day air, means it was in the ballpark. I wouldn't expect to order from a website and hope to compete for price against careful price-searching. ...

No, as I mentioned above, it is hard to go to one merchant and get the best price for a multitude of selections. And I also added the caveat that you might not be able to get all those prices right now, and some were based on auction results which might happen again, but might not. I'd be happy.

[Moses Botbol]

I'll mix port and wine to make shipping better as they'll always have a dry wine that I like at a good price if there was only one port bottle that caught my fancy.

[Eric Menchen]

... if there was only one port bottle that caught my fancy.

[Moses Botbol]

... if there was only one port bottle that caught my fancy.

What do you want... I am a cheap SOB

[Roy Hersh]

He ain't lyin'!

[Andy Velebil]

... if there was only one port bottle that caught my fancy.

What do you want... I am a cheap SOB

Ok, I think this is in the running for the being one of the best posts of the year.

[Peter W. Meek]

... it is hard to go to one merchant and get the best price for a multitude of selections....

Well the Free-ground-shipping was based on 6 bottles from a group of ports, so I picked according to: what looked interesting, well-rated by Roy, in my price range, good value, until I had 6 bottles. In their "regular" selection of ports there are usually a dozen or two varieties at any given time. I think they go around Europe looking for interesting older wines, ship back a conditioned container-full, and put them up for sale. Nice business to be in! SF based, so you Californians get to shop in person if you get to SF occasionally.

[Eric Menchen]

From the "What have you purchased this week" thread:

A mixed case consisting of

• 1994 J.W. Burmester VP
• 1996 J.W. Burmester Quinta Nova Vin - Not sure what this is, but for $24 I figured I'd find out
• 2000 Quinta do Crasto VP
• 2003 Quinta do Crasto VP

I have had a working list of online merchants that I wanted to order from, and this was from the last I had on that list.

So Cabrini Wines out of NYC has failed to impress me with their customer service on this order. The day after I placed the order, I got a call telling me that they only had two bottles of the 2000 Crasto. O.k., I'll take another 2003. At least they called and resolved that quickly, and later that day they e-mailed me a FedEx tracking number. Well, no tracking info on the FedEx web site that Friday, but that happens sometimes before FedEx actually picks up the package. I checked FedEx over the weekend, and on Monday, still no info. I sent an e-mail to Cabrini, no reply. Checked FedEx throughout the week, still nothing. I called Cabrini and just got their voicemail which mentioned another e-mail address. So I e-mailed that and the original sales address. No reply. I called this morning, "Oh, the internet guy isn't in yet. Let me take your information and I'll have him call you." Later in the day, no call; so I called them. I finally reached the internet sales guy. He told me that when they checked the warehouse, the couldn't find any of the 1996 Burmester. "So, what were you going to do about that." "Oh, our records show we tried calling you, but didn't get you." Well, I don't know if they called, but I'm slightly skeptical. More importantly, a week went by and they never tried calling again, or e-mailing me. Today I substituted more of the 1994 Burmester for the 1996, and I've crossed my fingers.