OK, horizontal tastings are different shippers from the same year, and verticals are different years from the same shipper.
That's two dimensions...
The third has emerged from this forum - the issue of how long a wine should be decanted for before being drunk!
Yet again - this time with Offley '83 - I am finding that a middle distance mature VP presents a superior drinking experiance after 24hrs + in the decanter.
Others, I know, do not agree (or have doubts...)
There is only one way to test this - take six bottles from the same case and decant them into six identical decanters at six hourly intervals.
Mark them, jumble them up and run a tasting session.
I can provide suitable bottles, but my decanters are very varied in design, which could have some influence...
Anyone want to pursue this with me?
Tom
The third dimension
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Tom Archer
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Too bad you live so far or I'd be up for the experimentation.
In addition to horizontal and vertical tastings, I created a very different theme a number of years ago ... actually it was at my annual Port tasting in 1998. I held what I called a "diagonal" tasting and lost of people on a now mostly defunct wine board, took me to task with the diagonal name or thene.
But doing a horizontal and vertical at the same time, evaluating the same producers in a number of vintages ... to me ... was perfectly described as a diagonal tasting. Until two years ago, I had never seen anyone else call it that, so it is possible I was the "first" at something? Anyway, if you remember the theme we did with the London Port tasting with four producers and three vintages ... that was a DIAGONAL tasting. Fascinating for evaluating multiple producers, getting to learn the house style of a producer, learn about a specific vintage and actually a few of them from a horizontal standpoint, while learning what producer is best in which vintage AND which producer you like overall.
I have done four of these myself over the years and was happy to attend Alex's great tasting in Nov!
In addition to horizontal and vertical tastings, I created a very different theme a number of years ago ... actually it was at my annual Port tasting in 1998. I held what I called a "diagonal" tasting and lost of people on a now mostly defunct wine board, took me to task with the diagonal name or thene.
But doing a horizontal and vertical at the same time, evaluating the same producers in a number of vintages ... to me ... was perfectly described as a diagonal tasting. Until two years ago, I had never seen anyone else call it that, so it is possible I was the "first" at something? Anyway, if you remember the theme we did with the London Port tasting with four producers and three vintages ... that was a DIAGONAL tasting. Fascinating for evaluating multiple producers, getting to learn the house style of a producer, learn about a specific vintage and actually a few of them from a horizontal standpoint, while learning what producer is best in which vintage AND which producer you like overall.
I have done four of these myself over the years and was happy to attend Alex's great tasting in Nov!
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Derek T.
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- Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom - UK
- Contact:
Tom,
I'd be up for this. We already have the Vesuvio tasting session organised for May but perhaps this could be the main theme for the next one. I'm sure we could find 6 cheap decanters somewhere to provide consistency. The Crusting Pipe may even be able to supply them for us if the tasting was held there as they seem to sell lots of VP in their restaurant.
Derek
I'd be up for this. We already have the Vesuvio tasting session organised for May but perhaps this could be the main theme for the next one. I'm sure we could find 6 cheap decanters somewhere to provide consistency. The Crusting Pipe may even be able to supply them for us if the tasting was held there as they seem to sell lots of VP in their restaurant.
Derek
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Tom Archer
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Tom,
I'm also up for a decanter-time tasting. That would be a great experiment.....but I though time was the fourth dimension
I have given some thought to the decanting times for the Vesuvios, but my options are slightly limited by the fact that I am trying to balance time in the decanter against giving them time to settle after being moved around. The tasting is on a Monday and the Crusting Pipe opens at 11am. I will probably take a half-days holiday to set everything up and will get there at 11am to start decanting with the ports having been delivered there directly the previous week.
The latest vintages will get the longest time in the decanter, with some variation for the "larger" wines. The 1989 seems to be more delicate and so will be the last wine I decant.
It takes me around 10-15 minutes per bottle to open, decant, rinse out the bottle and double decant back into the bottle. I have to hope that the action of double decanting gets enough air into the wine to help it to develop and the lack of air-wine surface does not hold it back (perhaps that could be a fifth dimension for a decanter-time experiment - 2 bottles, one in a decanter and one back into the bottle at six hourly intervals).
Based on the time it takes me to decant, I would estimate that the wines will have been open for the following amounts of time when we start drinking (at about 7pm):
2003 - 7:45
2001 - 7:30
2000 - 7:15
1999 - 7:00
1998 - 6:45
1997 - 6:30 (probably swap with the 2001)
1996 - 6:15
1995 - 6:00
1994 - 5:45
1992 - 5:30
1991 - 5:15
1990 - 5:00
1989 - 4:45
The older wines will be poured towards the end of the tasting so it is likely that by the time we reach the 2003, a couple more hours will have elapsed and we will be drinking this nearly 10 hours after the wine was opened.
Alex
I'm also up for a decanter-time tasting. That would be a great experiment.....but I though time was the fourth dimension
I have given some thought to the decanting times for the Vesuvios, but my options are slightly limited by the fact that I am trying to balance time in the decanter against giving them time to settle after being moved around. The tasting is on a Monday and the Crusting Pipe opens at 11am. I will probably take a half-days holiday to set everything up and will get there at 11am to start decanting with the ports having been delivered there directly the previous week.
The latest vintages will get the longest time in the decanter, with some variation for the "larger" wines. The 1989 seems to be more delicate and so will be the last wine I decant.
It takes me around 10-15 minutes per bottle to open, decant, rinse out the bottle and double decant back into the bottle. I have to hope that the action of double decanting gets enough air into the wine to help it to develop and the lack of air-wine surface does not hold it back (perhaps that could be a fifth dimension for a decanter-time experiment - 2 bottles, one in a decanter and one back into the bottle at six hourly intervals).
Based on the time it takes me to decant, I would estimate that the wines will have been open for the following amounts of time when we start drinking (at about 7pm):
2003 - 7:45
2001 - 7:30
2000 - 7:15
1999 - 7:00
1998 - 6:45
1997 - 6:30 (probably swap with the 2001)
1996 - 6:15
1995 - 6:00
1994 - 5:45
1992 - 5:30
1991 - 5:15
1990 - 5:00
1989 - 4:45
The older wines will be poured towards the end of the tasting so it is likely that by the time we reach the 2003, a couple more hours will have elapsed and we will be drinking this nearly 10 hours after the wine was opened.
Alex