Should Port be "legalized" in other wineproducing

[Nikolaj Winther]

Maybe you've already had this discussion on this board, but here goes:

The EU is "laying down the law" in regards to other countries marketing port-styled wine in Europe. I find this unfair in regards to both the consumer and free competition all together.

What are your thoughts on this? Should, say Australia and others be entitled to sell their ports in the EU under, say "Australian Vintage Port" etc.

If so, should the same strict rules as are implemented in portugal in regards to quality etc. be introduced in those countries?

Any input - especially argumentative - is welcome.

[Stuart Chatfield]

Nikolaj,

as a good Englishman I detest virtually everything the EU does. There is no point listing all the things they do wrong as I'll fill up this board and make myself angry.

However, I detest the EU because of the series of errors it makes on specific issues, not as a general gripe. This is one area where it is actually right.

If the EU is banning anyone else from making fortified red wine they are wrong. But if, as you say, they are protecting the word "port" as a sort of trademark or intellectual property of the port region only, that can only be used on fortified red wine from that region, I don't agree with you.

This is not about free competition, but trademarks. I hope that Australia (or whatever country is doing this) make their own fortified wine and compete, in free competition, with Portugal and therefore increase competition and drive down prices. However, they should make up a name of their own for their own wine.

The EU (its wine, and Europe generally) do much to stifle competition, but if I understand what you are saying, this is not a good example. Do you want some? Let's start with CAP, FRENCH wine subsidies and real discrimination against imports from outside the EU purely to prop up appallingly-bad and outdated practices in Europe :x

To be fair, I think they did the same thing internally when they banned certain types of English "champagne". There, I'm being fair to the EU in its action against England.

[Richard Henderson]

I agree with Stuart. As a direct descendant of a Scottish immigrant, I appreciate the fact that the Scots have protected the use of the word "scotch" to protect its whisky. The Japanese tried with Santori. I think they lost in court.
The EU is trying to put the cat back in the bag a little late as the folks from Oporto have not protetced their name throughout the world.
The champagne folks did a better job as well.
Champagne method or sparkler tells me it is not from Champagne.
Port should be from Oporto. Madeira from Madeira, etc.

[Tom Archer]

Come now Stuart, there are only two things wrong with the EU:

1) Everything it does

2) Everything it says

However, producers of fortified wine from other countries should find their own name for the product - not hijack someone else's

Tom

[Nikolaj Winther]

What, then, would a good name be for, say australian vintage port. To me, port is much more a style than a place. "Fortified wine (that'll do well with two decades in the cellar)" sounds like "mammaries" during sex.

[Tom Archer]

Oz is full of suitable names,

You could lay down a few bottles of Sydney or Koala or go the whole hog and call it Wagga Wagga

"G'day Bruce - heard you got pissed on the old Wagga Wagga last night..."

[Stuart Chatfield]

Some ideas, but it is for them to decide and then to create the trademark:


"Aus"

"Oauso"

"Aus-Ashes" (An English joke, but apt as they kept them in their cellar for 20 years and have just brought them out for us)

[Stuart Chatfield]

Oz is full of suitable names,

You could lay down a few bottles of Sydney or Koala or go the whole hog and call it Wagga Wagga

"G'day Bruce - heard you got pissed on the old Wagga Wagga last night..."

They had some "vintage Warne" last year, according to the experts, and it still left them with a hangover.

What about "Warno"

[Al B.]

They've already got names for some of their "ports" - I believe that Quady's make a fortified red wine they call Starboard.

Oauso - might make the greeks upset when they drink it instead of that aniseed Ouzo that you always bring home from a greek holiday and never drink.

At a tangent to the cricket sporting theme, the Australians could call their port "Johno" or "Wilko" after Johnny Wilkinson's last ever international rugby performance - experience Australian port and be crocked forever.

Or we could be less subtle and suggest that they call their ruby equivalent "Cheapo" and their VP equivalent "Ponceo".

Hmm. Hope no-one reading these messages take them seriously, this is just meant to be a bit of fun at the expense of the Australians since every sport loving Brit knows that we are going to be walloped next time we play them at anything serious.

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

How bout, "Barby Red Tawny"... Enjoy a nice glass of tawny after you fire up the barby.

[Roy Hersh]

What, then, would a good name be for, say australian vintage port. To me, port is much more a style than a place. "Fortified wine (that'll do well with two decades in the cellar)" sounds like "mammaries" during sex.

I don't give a rats ass what they call it but don't use the term of Port or port or even port-style in the name of a wine from ANYWHERE except the demarcated Douro region. It is just absolutely wrong!

Champagne that is labeled such in CA and WA State and anywhere else are brands that I would NEVER reward with a purchase. Cognac is a protected name and Brandy isn't for a darn good reason. It took Chablis a long time to win their battle. How is Port any different than Bordeaux, in this way? Napa led the way with "Meritage" as a way to describe Bdx blends. Other regions need to get creative. Burgundy as was used on cheap jug wines in the USA that were mostly Zin and Cab, have been taken to task.

I truly hope that the "EU/Napa accords" prevent ANY other region in the world from calling their fortified wine Port and that includes the very few that at least have the decency to utilize the proper cultivars. In CA, there is a producer named Quady, that was creative in the '90s calling their fortified wine: Starboard, as a fun play on words. I admit to being a purist in this particular sense, protecting the product that is best and best known, when it comes from its indigenous and historical region. All you have to do is read the first article in this month's newsletter and you'll see why I feel so strongly.

[Tom Archer]

Just had a delivery.

I bought 8 bottles of Offley '77 at Christies, but included in the lot were also a dozen other odd bottles, which I paid virtually nothing for..

Now here's one to make Roy frown...

"Rovalley 1975 vintage port"

Made in South Australia, and seemingly bottled the same year

Made from Grenache, Shiraz and Cab Sav

Very elegant label, cheap gold plastic capsule, bottled in green glass. Level vts

Now what are the chances of this being any good??

Tom

[Alex K.]

I think my tag-line says it all but that won't stop me from ranting.

Port is from Portugal
Bordeaux is from Bordeaux
Burgundy is from Burgundy
Champagne is from Champagne
Brie is from Brie
Cheddar is only ever mined from the Cheddar Gorge and the dwindling stocks are due to over-mining, creating a universal demand sated only by plastic cheese from supermarkets.

Australian fortified wines are marketed now as 'Tawnies' or something equally helpful. They are not Ports, never will be, so why bother claiming that they are?

Quady also make Essencia (not so keen on this name) and Elysium, which can be viewed in their own rights.

Brown Brothers of Australia give good descriptive names to their fortified wines.

These have more credibility than anything which calls itself 'Port' so why bother?

[pgwerner]

I agree with Roy - the name "Port" really should be restricted to Ports from the Duoro. It's misuse or downright abuse of the term to use it to describe fortifieds from anywhere else.

In Europe, they've long had it established that fortified reds have their own regional names or varietal names - hence Port, Banyuls, Maury, Rasteau, Dolce Monastrell, etc. (This is the case even when the regional wines are very similar in style, as is the case with Banyuls and Maury.) In California, Australia, South Africa, etc, they've decided, unfortunately, that the name "Port" is properly applied to any fortified red from anywhere in the world.

California is the worst in this regard, turning out a host of inferior, overpriced "Ports", generally made from leftover grapes (usually Zinfandel) that they can't use for table wine. This gets to the real issue with this kind of trademark infringement, which is one of quality control. Porto producers generally have an interest in having wines of a particular style, tradition, and quality level, and regulate accordingly. When overseas producers slap the name "Port" on any old sweet red they care to produce, they bastardize the name. "I don't like Port", unfortunately, is a common sentiment in the wine world. This is often due to snobbery (or genuine distaste) against sweet wines, but I wonder in how many cases somebody tried a crumby, overpriced "Zinfandel Port" and said "never again".

[pgwerner]

"Quady also make Essencia (not so keen on this name) and Elysium, which can be viewed in their own rights."

Actually, "Starboard" is Quady's Port knock-off, and to their credit, they don't try to pass it off as "Port", even though they're one of the few producers in California to even attempt a Port-style wine with Duoro varietals. "Essencia" is a fortified White Muscat, and pretty cloying and overly floral, like most California sweet Muscats. "Elysium" is a Black Muscat, and my one experience with Black Muscat (I forget whether it was Elysium or not) was that it was downright nasty - the only wine I've ever poured down the drain because it wasn't even so much as quaffable.

[Alex K.]

pgw - my point about Quady was that they didn't feel the need to market as 'Port' but are coming up with their own names for their fortified wines that work. I like the attitude. I agree that Essencia is a bit gooey, it has its place especially chilled, but I quite like the Elysium.

[Nikolaj Winther]

So something like "Australian Vintage/tawny/single-harvest/ruby/late-bottled" would suit you or???

I read a quick note (was in a rush so didn't get to read it throughly) in a danish wine-magazine, that the EU has approved the US to use the terms like "Washington Port" or something like that. Also, it applies for a number of other protected names. However, it's illegal to call german produced port-styled wine for "Deutsches Portwein" or "German port" or whatever. Double-standarts, go figure.