Would a "Port bar" work here in the USA?

[Roy Hersh]

Since lots of people reading this Forum have been to Vinologia at one time or another, do you think a Port-centric bar could work in the USA?

If so, would it only be able to be supported in a big city like SF or NYC, or do you think it could work elsewhere?

How big, how many seats/tables should it have?

What about food offerings?

[Derek T.]

Do I smell a career move?

[Scott Anaya]

hmmmm....maybe a small Port bar in a very large city might fly. Might have to have KILLER desserts or some sort of related draw too? 30-40 seats maybe?

[Ronald Wortel]

To reach a larger audience, I think I would add Portuguese wines, and serve Portuguese snacks or small dishes, including good cheeses (serra d'estrela!) and great desserts.

[Moses Botbol]

There are a few Portuguese restaurants around Boston and none of them have a "line out the door". Most are in crappy areas in terms of access and parking. Go to New Bedford and Fall River there are several Portuguese restaurants, but you get into "why go out for food my mom and grandma are cooking for free"?

That being said, there probably is room for one "port bar" in every major city. It would have to include non-port offerings and food. Funny, S.E. Mass and RI, every pizza place has Linguica as a topping. Come to Boston, "What the F is Linguica?" Brazilians have a different idea of what Linguica is than people from Azores or mainland.

I don't think port and madeira alone can draw initially, but I think with the right atmosphere and high class service, a port bar would be a welcome stop for many going out. The glass prices would have to lower than most are selling port by the glass and in a nice glass.

Basically, it would have to be a good stop that has a lot of port and madeira and promotes it. I know the wine and food critics will throw a bone in their reviews as they should be excited.

[Eric Ifune]

I think a Port centric place might work in a big city, but could not exist on Port alone. Would need some food and/or snacks and desserts. Would also need some sort of nitrogen or other inert gas purging system to keep bottles fresh, especially for Vintages. Perhaps a seperate area for cigars and the like for that customer base also.

[Eric Menchen]

Would also need some sort of nitrogen or other inert gas purging system to keep bottles fresh, especially for Vintages.

vinoSystem.jpg (61.15 KiB) Viewed 1301 times

This system used argon, and was in a hotel bar. They had a few Ports, SW '03 and something else as I recall. It was self-serve--you used your room key to get a pour, and they also served pours in the restaurant. The restaurant pours were like 2, 4, and 6 oz. I don't remember what the self-serve size was. Prices varied and are displayed above the bottles.

[goncalo devesas]

For me some different varieties of strong cheeses, chocolate cake and mousse, muffins, egg cream, a nice piece of vanilla ice cream with a red fruits (berry topping)...

The nice wine cooler, for Vintages and LBV´s, and a menu for all week with a daily Vintage tasting information, vacuum system and like Eric said:

I think a Port centric place might work in a big city, but could not exist on Port alone. Would need some food and/or snacks and desserts. Would also need some sort of nitrogen or other inert gas purging system to keep bottles fresh, especially for Vintages. Perhaps a seperate area for cigars and the like for that customer base also.

If some one have been thinking about that, please tell me, being all day speaking english and talking about Port wine

With all the community of Port LOVERS in USA, it will be definitely a success !!!

[Glenn E.]

I think it could work, but that it would probably be a challenge. The cost of setting up seems like it would be really high to me because to really be successful as a Port bar you'd need lots of good stuff, and the good stuff is expensive.

I'd serve cheese flights, chocolate flights, and any other "snacky" types of food that go well with Port.

I think Scott probably has the size right, at least to start. Even Vinologia isn't a large place, and it's in Porto. But with a decent setup, 30-40 seats seems like it ought to be workable. Location would probably be more important than size. Downtown & trendy would probably work best, I think.

I'd love to see one start up... you know I'd do my part to help it succeed in Seattle!

[Roy Hersh]

In the late 1980s, I owned a successful restaurant on the outskirts of Boulder, CO in a place called Gunbarrel (pop. then was about 8,000). I think there is a much greater chance of me winding up on Pandora tomorrow then there is of me doing another restaurant in my lifetime.

My question was strictly hypothetical, but interesting to hear your responses. I have no doubt that one could do well in London and NYC in reality, but possibly even Vegas within a hotel, small and with exemplary service but not snobby. Not sure about elsewhere. Seattle would be the last place to do one. You'd think Chicago would be a great place, congenial and with an affluent citizenry and a perfect size. However, they don't seem to sell much Port there.

[Thomas Tideman Holst]

Glenn,
[quote] I'd serve cheese flights, chocolate flights, and any other "snacky" types of food that go well with Port.
/quote]

What kind of snacky foods go well with port?

[Glenn E.]

I'd serve cheese flights, chocolate flights, and any other "snacky" types of food that go well with Port.

What kind of snacky foods go well with port?

Well you'd need crackers and/or breads to go with the cheese, but then I'd also have a variety of meats available. Nothing too spicy so you'd have to be careful about which sausages you picked, but sausages, salamis, and other cured meats would work well.

I think you could probably also find pastries and desserts that work, though I'm no expert when it comes to that. Fruit tarts, perhaps?

[Moses Botbol]

Keeping the price point down is critical if you want this to be a happening place. There has to be plenty of port selection at the $4-7 range. $12+ a glass of port is not going to be a big hit for keeping people around. You want to be keep the customer there; not be a pit stop. Bottles of LBV's for $40 or Vintage for under $100. You can't serve new vintages either. Building a good cellar at attractive prices won't be an easy feat.

The key is to make the bar's style is modern, fresh, and hip. You need trendsetters and women to like the atmosphere and service.

[Roy Hersh]

Good looking women servers who know their Port could be a big draw, but then again, that's not what will draw women consumers in and that would be the ultimate sign of success.

What do you think of instead of doing pricing by the glass, have groups of wines that could be sold by the flight ... like, "pick any four of these ten Ports for $29.95" and the put a few accouterments on the table for free.

[Brian C.]

I could see it working with a cigar bar, though I don't know how the no smoking ordinances would affect such a concept. I'd hate to have to deal with all the smoke to get a nice offering somewhere, though.

One other idea is to offer other Portuguese liqueurs at the bar. Shots of Ginja in a chocolate cup, how cool would that be? I suppose this stuff is already in the Portuguese restaurants out east, though. I think all this stuff was available at Alfama in New York, anyway.

In the meantime, it would be nice just to see bars and restaurants who understand port at all around here. That would be a nice start.

Aside from the usual food and drink angle, we absolutely loved the pastries in Portugal. If anything is going to sell here in Chicago, that would be it.

[Marc J.]

I think that a Port bar is a viable idea for a large metropolitan area. As long as it stayed fairly small and there were small plates offered as well, I could see it developing a following. I'd imagine that having a few top tier VPs available along with plenty of mid-level Crusteds, LBVs & Colheitas as the backbone of the line-up would be the key. Maybe some jazz on the weekends combined with a contemporary interior would help to enliven the space.

Marc

[Moses Botbol]

In terms of running a good selection of affordable port that is served correct; it's got to be heavy on Colheita and Tawny. Madeira and sherry should be offered. Having a pipe of port on display and pour from would be really cool too. Bucelas for sparkling wine and whole spectrum of Portugal's red and whites.

[Eric Menchen]

Definitely some almonds would be good. I have a good friend that makes a wonderful roasted almond with olive oil, pepper, rosemary, ... truly addictive and a good snack.

Flights would definitely be good too. I've been to many good beer bars with flights, and one of my favorite restaurants near here does flights of wine, in particular a flight of dessert wines. Horizontals and verticals would make things interesting for the customers.

I would think winter would be easier selling than in the summer. To survive the summer, a patio and Vinho Verdes with tapas.

[Roy Hersh]

In the summer, why not chilled Tawny Port? Have you ever done that ... without using an ice cube ... place the bottle in the refrigerator for 15 minutes and bring the temp down 10 degrees or so and it makes a really refreshing drink. If that doesn't work for you, try doing that with a Sercial or Verdelho Madeira. Great stuff!

I think that if people were willing to experiment, some Port cocktails could even be created that would be innovative and tasty!

[Eric Menchen]

In the summer, why not chilled Tawny Port? Have you ever done that ... without using an ice cube ... place the bottle in the refrigerator for 15 minutes and bring the temp down 10 degrees or so and it makes a really refreshing drink.

My thoughts on that are covered in this thread: http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... f=7&t=8927
But it could work for some people.