Anyone Have Any Experience with Taylor Fladgate Vargellas Vinha Velha?

[justinbonner]

I just picked up three bottles of the 07 TF VVV. Anyone have any experience with these? In past vintages, have these been far superior to the standard VP bottles?

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Justin,


Nice to see you back here for a visit.

The Vinha Velha is a limited production VP which has now been made in 1995, 1997, 2000, 2004 and again in 2007 for just the 5th time. This is a step up in quality from Taylor's typical and wonderful bottlings of Quinta de Vargellas Vintage Port. If you seek out my long article on Vargellas Vinha Velha, from a few years back ... it will provide you with a ton of details.

As to the 2007, it is a very solid Port, but from the early goings was not showing the greatness of say the 1995 or 2000. Time will tell and it does have a lot of stuffing but was in a very awkward stage the few times I have had it, even evaluating this over several days. I know there are some who just had a glass here or there for a few minutes and loved it, but the truth is tasting it over several days and watching it evolve. For the price point, I sometimes question if these are really worth paying double the price of the Taylor "classic" Vintage Port from the same vintage ... but people like the reputation of its scarcity. Put the name old vines on a bottle and it usually will sell well. That said, Taylor is very selective of when they release this Port and it is something special that they are very careful to guard against anything put their top notch juice into.

So you are probably sitting on some Port that will drink much better with 2 decades of bottle age on it. It is one I would personally suggest that you put away for the long haul as this will require significant time to resolve itself and show at its best.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Please do stop by and become more involved here with your interest in Port ... there's no place better!

[justinbonner]

Thanks for the reply Roy. Taylor remains my favorite VP producer as I find them to be the most consistent. I don't drink VP often (once a month) but when I do, it seems Grahams, QdN, Warres, etc can disappoint at times whereas Taylor seems to always hit the higher notes. I'll put these away deep in the cellar and wait until retirement Thanks again for the info and I'll look up your older more detailed thread on the VVV.

[Roy Hersh]

Justin,

I'd love to hear about which Ports from the aforementioned producers have disappointed you. It would be interesting to see specific names/vintages etc.

[Moses Botbol]

I'd love to hear about which Ports from the aforementioned producers have disappointed you.

I can see QdN disappointing. 1970 is iffy and the 80's Nacional's are not worth as austere. I'd be hardpressed to find a disappointing Warre or Graham vintage; just disappointing bottles.

[Glenn E.]

I can see QdN disappointing.

Agreed... the '70s and '80s were a low point for Noval, but they have sure come on strong starting in 1994! '97, '03, and now '07 is an impressive array of smash hits, while '94 and '00 are both outstanding in their own rights.

I'd be hardpressed to find a disappointing Warre or Graham vintage; just disappointing bottles.

I'm not all that fond of the '83 and '85 Warre's VPs, but it may be a style preference. I do agree about Graham, though - I think they may be the most consistently top-notch VP made. Taylor and Fonseca have higher highs, but they also have lower lows (1980, for example). Graham's VPs seem to consistently be in the top 2 or 3 of every vintage.

But regarding the original topic, I don't have much experience with VVV but what experience that I do have tells me that it's really not that much better than the standard Taylor VP (if at all). I was able to try the '07 twice, one of those blind, and rated it exactly the same as the '07 Taylor (also blind). So if you like "collectible" bottles for their rarity then VVV might be worth it to you, but if you're just going for what's actually in the bottle I'd say stick to the standard Taylor for half the price.

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Justin,

Good to have you back with us.

I've had the 2007 VVV four times now and I've been pretty consistent with my scores on it. And as others have mentioned it is a very good Port. But as they also mentioned, only you can decide if it's worth it to spend the extra money on it.

[Symon B]

h the vinha velha does not go into the taylors mix v port anymore but it used to the last time was 1994 i believe no wonder it was great
this is maybe why the t has lost some points ie if the 2007 had had vv in would it have got an extra point ore 2 symonb

[Niels Stroejer]

The only experience i have with the VVV, is the difficulty finding some bottles of 1997 :)

So if you find some, let me know :)

Niels

[Frederick Blais]

h the vinha velha does not go into the taylors mix v port anymore but it used to the last time was 1994 i believe no wonder it was great
this is maybe why the t has lost some points ie if the 2007 had had vv in would it have got an extra point ore 2 symonb

Some Vargelas Vinha velha does go into the regular Vintage declaration every time. When its not declare like in 2003, there is much more included in the blend, up to 2% of the volume. When there is both a declaration of VV and regular Vintage, there is much less.

I did taste the 95(1),2000(3),2004(3) with the number of times in parenthesis. I'm a big fan of this wine. It may not out live the regular Vintage but it does offer a silkyness and charm the regular Vintage does not offer. The 1995 VVV is probably the Port bottle I did open that was drank in a record time, with only 3 drinkers. So far my vote would go for the 2000 that does have the backbone to age effortless. This Port is close to perfection for my palate.

[Glenn E.]

Some Vargelas Vinha velha does go into the regular Vintage declaration every time. When its not declare like in 2003, there is much more included in the blend, up to 2% of the volume. When there is both a declaration of VV and regular Vintage, there is much less.

I could swear that I read somewhere that even in years that they bottle VVV, they only use about 6% of the VV grapes to make it. Leaving 94% of the grapes to be used in the regular Taylor bottling.

If that is true, then it really shouldn't affect the Taylor bottling much at all.

[Luc Gauthier]

The only VVVV I'm familiar with : va va va voom .
Rarely does VVV find Its way up here .