tips on storage packing in cellar

[Symon B]

hi if you have bottles loose and in good condition how do you stop lables dampning etc in a real cellar if they are not in a wood box do you get a wood box ore use the polystyreen individual outers you can get ore do what i do at the mo which is wrap in indicidual tisue and put on wood rack
we see mint very old bottles in auction not a blemish on the lables how can that be if they have been keps outside in a cellar can i have your views thankyou symon b

[Peter W. Meek]

There are basically four ways that the labels can become damp:

1) Humidities over about 70% - 75%.

2) Changes in temperature. If the temperature rises from very cool, leaving the bottles cooler than the humid air, moisture will condense from the air, like dew on the grass or the beads of condensation on a cold beer on a summer day. This can happen even at "good" humidities of 55% to 65%. (Your suggestion of tissue paper would give some protection against this. Boxes or polystyrene shippers would also help.)

3) Contamination of the labels by some hygroscopic substance. Many salts and other materials will draw moisture out of the air. If the labels have these substances on them (salt from sweaty hands, etc.) they can draw moisture out of the air and spoil the labels.

4) Actual flooding or water spray.

Those very old, yet pristine labels that you sometimes see, have been kept clean, and have been kept in very closely maintained temperature/humidity conditions. When they have had to be moved, they were probably kept in tight boxes that protected them from sudden changes of temperature or humidity. Many have been handled and/or disturbed only a few times since bottling/labeling. Cotton gloves will help protect against contamination with salts or oils from the hands. Remember, auction houses and long-term investors in port have reason to preserve the appearance of the bottle even more than the wine itself. People who intend to drink the wine can concentrate on preserving the wine.

If I were laying port away for many decades and hoped to keep the labels as well as the wines in the very best condition, I would be very careful to handle loose bottles only by the neck and punt, and avoid opening the OWC of any ports that I was fortunate enough to have in such cases. I would try to keep them in either an artificially temperature/humidity controlled room or refrigerator (with back-up generator and alarms), or in a cellar or cave where the conditions were naturally stable (within a degree or two and a few points of humidity) if I were fortunate enough to have such a place. I would not consider a cellar that swings 2-3 degrees on a daily basis, or 5 degrees on a seasonal basis to be stable; likewise, I would not consider 10% humidity swings to be stable.

A full cellar/refrigerator vs. a largely empty cellar/refrigerator will have a higher thermal mass and will exchange less outside air and moisture when the door is opened, which helps maintain stability. If your cellar is not fairly full, you might consider filling some empty bottles with water and keeping the shelves nearly filled to add extra thermal mass. (Keep such water-filled bottles below the real wines, in case of leakage.) Also closed cardboard boxes will trap "cubes" of cool, moist air which won't rush out the door when it is opened. I haven't gone so far as water-filled bottles, but I do keep all unoccupied bulk shelves in my cellar filled with closed, empty cardboard wine cases, as well as my collection of empty OWC. Easy enough to take them out of the cellar if I need the space for full cases. Bricks or concrete blocks will add thermal mass, as well as hold moisture, but they are quite heavy and a nuisance to move around. (If you add something like that to your cellar, add only a few at a time to avoid raising the temperature or dragging down the humidity suddenly. It took over a month of regulated humidity before the walls and racks in my cellar stopped absorbing moisture when I first "fired it up".)

[Andy Velebil]

Tissue paper is the enemy. Not many producers still use it to wrap bottles, Quinta do Crasto does for some of their dry wines and IIRC Vesuvio used to on their VP's but they no longer do. The problem is in a humid cellar the tissue paper ends up sticking to the bottle and ruins the label, or worse the printed ink transfers to the bottle. I now remove all tissue paper from all my bottles (from any region) before I tuck them away for long term storage.

[Peter W. Meek]

Tissue paper is the enemy. Not many producers still use it to wrap bottles, Quinta do Crasto does for some of their dry wines and IIRC Vesuvio used to on their VP's but they no longer do. The problem is in a humid cellar the tissue paper ends up sticking to the bottle and ruins the label, or worse the printed ink transfers to the bottle. I now remove all tissue paper from all my bottles (from any region) before I tuck them away for long term storage.

How humid IS that cellar? I've never had that kind of problem with tissue paper in my cellar at 60-65% humidity. Quite a few Italian wine producers still wrap high-end bottles expected to age for a while like Barolos.

Usually the problem is the extra time it takes to get the tissue off when trying to get and open a bottle during a commercial break on the TV. (Seconds may count!)

PS: Very little acid-containing paper is being made recently (since the 1950s-60s) so there should be no hygroscopic issues with tissue paper on wines bottled since then.

[Symon B]

hi i dont have a problem with the modern tisue it keeps dust of to keepe lables clean if no wooden box etc
the older tisue was terible in very damp conditions iv seen this in 60s bordeau wines ore earlier symonb
and thankyou peter for that superb reply re cellering wines

[Andy Velebil]

Peter,

Many cellars can get very damp, especially in winter, or even controlled offsites where the humidity is typically 70-75%. Having seen first hand and conversations with someone who worked at one of the major auction houses about tissue paper, it is the enemy in a cellar over time. Eventually the ink leaches out onto the labels and often the paper itself ends up sticking to the bottle like glue. I now remove all tissue paper from my bottles before I put them away for long term storage.

[Peter W. Meek]

Andy,

I may have less problem with tissue dampness since my cellar system will remove excess humidity to keep it in the 60-65% range. I have yet to see such problems, although my cellar is too young to have a several-decades, let alone centuries, history. So far the worst has been a several-week RH excursion into the low 70%s. During that time, the fabric arm-rests of my office chair became clammy due to the salts from my skin drawing moisture from the air. I had to temporarily reduce the temperature of the fountain water and I finally brought in a dehumidifier for a week or so. I still haven't determined what caused the rise in humidity.

Since I don't expect to ever sell any of the wine in my cellar, the issue of label damage or having the tissue paper stick to the bottle can't hurt me. For the time being, I think I will leave the few dozen tissued bottles that I have as they are. None of the tissued bottles need to age more than another decade or so anyway.

[Andy Velebil]

Yeah, I don't plan on reselling any of my bottles either (so far I have never sold a bottle from my cellar) so I don't care if the tissue paper stays on to keep the resale price higher or not. As there is often a perception that people will pay more for a bottle still wrapped in its original tissue paper.

The other reason I hate tissue paper is I can't easily read the label to determine what vintage or type of wine it is. As often the same paper is used to wrap different vintages, and even totally different wines from the same producer. So off it all comes as soon as I receive bottles wrapped in the stuff. Plus I feel like it's Christmas time unwrapping them

[Glenn E.]

I have a couple of 6-packs of Vesuvio that came tissue wrapped, and at first I kept the paper on until it started getting soggy. I guess I was lucky to need to re-arrange where things were in my refrigerator, because otherwise that soggy tissue would have ruined the bottle's appearance.

I don't plan to sell any of my bottles, but I still like for them to look nice when I open them. I think it really adds to the ambiance when an obviously old bottle still has a label in excellent condition - it must have been stored properly to still look that good! (Yeah, not necessarily, but that's the impression it gives.)

(Check out the photo I just posted of Roy's 1890 Burmester that was bottled in 1969... now THAT is a pristine looking bottle!)

[Roy Hersh]

Like Andy, I always remove the tissue paper, whether Port, Douro, Spanish, CA or other wine types. Outside of a smidge of dust, I don't need the protection in my cellar. I've had my Whisperkool unit coming up on 10 years soon and the only issue was the need to replace the thermastat at about six years of age.

we see mint very old bottles in auction not a blemish on the lables how can that be if they have been keps outside in a cellar can i have your views thankyou symon bSymon B

Most of us on this side of the pond keep our cellars either indoors or off-premise at a professional wine cellaring facility. I have only seen a handful of outdoor units in the USA, or at least cellars that are accessed by going outdoors, but quite a few in Europe.

[Moses Botbol]

I don't open up OWC's until ready to drink and don't care about the tissue paper or labels fall off. If they fall off, it saves me from soaking the label later if I want to preserve it.