Single Quinta Vintage Port (SQVP) versus "classic"

[Roy Hersh]

The argument can be made that the second labels or SQVPs in Port terms, are normally the components of a particular Port House's master blend for their "classic" vintage Port. So is it possible for the SQVP like Vargellas, Guimaraens, Bomfim, Malvedos ... not to mention the NON-secondary SQVPs like Quinta do Noval, Quinta do Portal and Quinta do Vesuvio to name just 3 to provide the same type of quality in a given year. Let's use 2005 as a hypothetical example for this discussion ... since none of us has tried them.

The contrarian question is: like some Burgundy single-vineyard properties, do these SQVP vineyards possess the goods to show more terroir driven wines that reflect the nuances of a particular vintage better than the masterfully blended, "house-style driven" classic VPs?

[Frederick Blais]

Very interesting question Roy. My answer would be no, it is just a question of microclimate terroir or regional terroir.

I think blending is part of Douro terroir. To the opposite in Burgundy, we do blending of vineyards but from one specific commune. For the douro, it could be blend from the Pinhao region exclusively. Again in Burgundy, the main grape Pinot Noir is always the only grape in the blend making it easier to taste the difference of terroir. In the Douro, most of the blends for VP use more than 10 grapes from different microclimate.

Just as in Burgundy, negociants wines doesn't mean they are not terroir driven even if they are not the owner of the land. Of course wine from Quinta do Noval speaks of a different terroir than the ones of Taylor Fladgate. One is specific to an microclimate the other one to a region, but both are terroir wines for me.

Of course it is easier to compare two terroirs when you compare vineyards from 2 different region. Noval VS Vale Meao should show the big differences in the style of wines from a same Vintage. It would be like comparing Cote de Beaune to Cote de Nuits, but we agree that both the wines can be terroir driven.

Now having taste many VP in their youth recently, I don't think SQVP show a more distinctive character of a specific vintage.

Terroir is about letting the components that lives arround your vineyards helping you create your wines. If you fight againts that to make appear flavours of components that would not normally show, this is not terroir. Adding too much oak, mycro oxygenation, oak chip, tannins addition. All these exemples can been seen as external components that are not coming from the terroir and spoil totally or partially the expression of it. Clearly I don't think we can see any of it in the Douro right now. Most the serious houses are using hundreds years old lagares, native grapes, native yeast, old vats just for oxygenation, feet threading, mechanisation is almost absent and the list goes on!

[Roy Hersh]

I would invite more thoughts from other posters as well. There are many ways to answer this and lots we can all learn and share.

Frederick,

Your avatar shows the demijohn of your favorite producer. Did you know that Dirk firmly believes that Vintage Port is terroir driven? He and I have had this discussion before. He is not the only one in the Douro to believe in this concept for VP. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

[Stuart Chatfield]

do these SQVP vineyards possess the goods to show more terroir driven wines that reflect the nuances of a particular vintage better than the masterfully blended, "house-style driven" classic VPs?

I think the answer to that is yes, but the trouble with port compared with Burgundy is that port is a cocktail of grapes whereas burgundy has just one (well one for red and one for white).

For example, overall, my favourite VP is Taylors, followed by, probably Dow and Warre. However, despite many attempts I just can't love Vargellas on its own. In my view, Taylors is greater than the sum of its parts - presumably due to masterful blending*.

However, I adore Bomfim on its own - much more than Vargellas, despite preferring the overall Taylors blend to Dow.

Whether that is terroir or just the combination of grapes in those quintas is beyond me :? . I'd like Roy to tell me that approximately the same grape blend is used in both so I can put it down to terroir! But maybe it's not.


*This makes me think of another point. Is Quinta do Junco wine going to be put in Taylors VP and will that change the character of Taylors?

[Andy Velebil]

...So is it possible for the SQVP...to provide the same type of quality in a given year. .

The contrarian question is: like some Burgundy single-vineyard properties, do these SQVP vineyards possess the goods to show more terroir driven wines that reflect the nuances of a particular vintage better than the masterfully blended, "house-style driven" classic VPs?

As for the first part, yes I think SQVP's can provide the same type of quality in a given year. Just look at some of the exclusive SQVP's such as Qd Vesuvio. As for the larger houses who use a blend of grapes, yes their SQVP's can be just as high in quality. However, I think this is where you get into a whole other realm.

Just as an example, take Dow's Bofim. This is a wonderful SQVP. To me Bofim is not the overly dry style that I don't like about most of Dow's product range. The Bofim is much more sexy and silky, with nuances not found in their blends. I think it has the legs to sand up against it's big brother, the VP, and in some ways beat it. But Bofim, or any SQVP, is a different wine than a blended VP. Anytime you only use grapes from one vineyard you are going to get different nuances than in a VP, and a more specific terroir driven wine. Where as if your blending your trying to achieve a "house style" that is reflective of a long history for that producer. When you blend you lose some of that terroir, just a result of combining any number of grapes from different locations. That does not mean that terrior is just thrown out the window, as a blend must incorporate a number of things, nuances from a particular terrior included.

Another thing to add. From my understanding most second label SQVP's are produced with more short term aging in mind. This may be what leads to the belief that second labels are not as worthy as their big brothers. I would love to be able to compare a second label SQVP along side a blended VP from the same year. Just to put this question to the palate.

[Al B.]

My view is that the single quinta wines are quite capable of producing wines that are of comparable quality as would be the "classic blends". I assume that it is a matter of choice based on market conditions and volumes of quality fruit that lead the producers to decide whether to release wine in the Single Quinta for or in the "classic blend" form.

As I see it, when drinking a Single Quinta wine, you are probably more likely to experience the variation that comes from the weather and also from the specific terroir of the quinta.

When drinking a "classic blend", you are more likely to get a better depth of complexity as you will have a wider range of terroir influences blended into the final bottle.

Personally, I enjoy drinking both types of wine and being able to make comparisons like this.

Alex

[Cindy Walker]

...and the wine is bottled poetry - Robert Louis Stevenson.

SQVP is it's own poetry that has not been blended but allowed to show its own character. This is what makes it real of its own accord.

Fun discussion gentlemen, thank you! I learned a lot.

Cindy

[Roy Hersh]

Cindy,

Welcome aboard. I just got home from teaching a Port class tonight and came across your post. First of all, welcome aboard FTLOP! It is nice to have another woman here, but few tend to stay interested in Port on line, for long. It would be nice for us to have more balance for a different perspective. I hope you will find the community, worthy of spending some time here on occasion.

Now please do share which Single Quintas interest you.


Thanks!

[Cindy Walker]

Hi Roy and others,

I'm about to try Graham's 95 Malvedos VP....I'll tune back in and let you know what I personally discover.

I'd like to discover any other SQVP recommendations!! I've been reading about Crusted Port as well...your thoughts?

Cindy

[Derek T.]

Cindy,

The most widely available SQVP's here in the UK are Graham's Malvedos, Taylor's Vargellas and Dow's Bonfim. Fonseca Guimaraens is also widely available but it is not an SQVP, just a second label blended VP from Fonseca. I have had many vinatges of all of these and can't remember a bad one. I have only very recently started to take tasting notes so can't recommend specific vintages other than Malvedos 96 but I know Roy rates the Vargellas 87 as a great wine that could challenge many top label classic vintages.

Other SQVP's to look out for are Vesuvio and Noval Nacional. You are unlikely to come across a bad wine from either of these but you will need very deep pockets if you want to sip the later on a regular basis :?

I can't comment on Crusted ports as I have not tasted one. You might want to have a go with some unfiltered LBV as these can be as good as many SQVP's. Warre's (Unfiltered) LBV 92, 94 and 95 are particular favourites of mine. Noval and Niepoort also produce excellent traditional LBV. If you are looking for some of the Warre's make sure you don't choose the filtered version. The one you would be looking for has a cream label and the other is black and a very much inferior wine.

Hope this helps.

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Cindy,

See if you can find a bottle of Quinta do Portal's 1999 VP. It should not cost you much and it is really a fine Port considering an off vintage and at that time, an unknown producer.

Quinta do Crasto LBVs are Single Quinta LBV Ports and some are incredible.

I think you will also get many new ideas from the newsletter that is about to hit your email box within the next 36-48 hours, with over 70 tasting notes ... all from Single Quintas (about a ten of them). Enjoy!

[Cindy Walker]

Hi Roy,

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll give them a try and let you know what I think.

Cindy

[Cindy Walker]

Derek,

I've considered checking out Vesuvio so I am glad to see you mentioned it. I appreciate your thoughts on crusted port too. I find the idea interesting and look forward to trying all these. I've either tried VP or LBV so it's going to fun to try the others.

Thank you for taking the time to make these suggestions!

Cindy

[Derek T.]

Cindy,

My humble view of Crusted Port is that it seems to be a poor relation to VP and top quality LBV. I think in days gone by it was known in the UK as "The Poor Man's Vintage".

I can only assume that is made from blends containing wines that did not stand up on their own. I have often reached out to pick up a Crusted Port from the shelf but after comparing the price with good LBV or a SQVP have always chosen to leave the Crusted Port and opt for one of the others. Perhaps I have to put aside my unfounded predjudice and try one :?

Regards

Derek

[Cindy Walker]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your thoughts! I think Crusted Port will be interesting to try. According to some research I've done--they are supposed to be closer in style (dense concentration) to VP than LBV. It says typically wines from 2 or 3 harvests are aged in wood up to two years and bottled without fining or filtration. It also mentioned the term you did "poor man's vintage port". :) I wonder if it means it is a vintage that did not stand up well???

I bought a bottle of 1999 Dow so I'll let you know what I discover.

I printed off your suggestions and plan to taste some port this weekend. Hope you have a great one!

Cindy

[Frederick Blais]

The topic brought enough interest to me that I also bought a bottle of Dow's crusted port bottled in 99. I've tasted the 98 version and I really enjoyed it. Maybe it could be the next wine to taste in our virtual tasting.

[Cindy Walker]

The topic brought enough interest to me that I also bought a bottle of Dow's crusted port bottled in 99. I've tasted the 98 version and I really enjoyed it. Maybe it could be the next wine to taste in our virtual tasting.

Hi Fred,

I've tried the Dow Crusted Porto bottled in 1999 and am looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

What I've noticed:
Aromas of plum, deep black cherry, lavender and a hint of smoke. Taste: Black cherries, bittersweet chocolate, a smooth start finishing with a spicy cinnamon...like Saigon cinnamon (one I have from the Spice House in Milwaukee WI).

It really is quite rich...and reminds me more so of Vintage than some of the LBVs I have had.

What do you think?

[Frederick Blais]

I would invite more thoughts from other posters as well. There are many ways to answer this and lots we can all learn and share.

Frederick,

Your avatar shows the demijohn of your favorite producer. Did you know that Dirk firmly believes that Vintage Port is terroir driven? He and I have had this discussion before. He is not the only one in the Douro to believe in this concept for VP. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

Roy is it time to tell us more about that?

[Roy Hersh]

Elizabeth,

I hope this thread will provide you the information you are seeking. It is a common source of confusion and the many responses here do the topic justice. Regards to Lawrence and best wishes to the three of you!


Roy

[Moses Botbol]

I have often reached out to pick up a Crusted Port from the shelf but after comparing the price with good LBV or a SQVP have always chosen to leave the Crusted Port and opt for one of the others.

Don't knock the Crusted! I find it to be a good value and much more "VP" like than LBV.

The debate with VP vs. SQVP could be be "house style" vs. "terrior". Hard to say which one is being noticed. I find the Bonfim to sweeter than Dow VP, but this weekend I had '63 Dow that much sweeter than I was expecting, as was the '70 Dow a few weeks ago. Seems like Dow has a lot of bottle variation.

Do the SQVP's get processed different would be my first question towards an answer.