Retailer's reactions to returned bottles with TCA

[Roy Hersh]

Have you ever tried this? I have read many posts over the years all over the vinternet where people bring back their bottles to retailers, usually getting mixed reactions. Have you ever done this with Port? How was this handled by the retailer?

Do you think there should be an "time" limit for this? In other words, if you go back to the shop tomorrow, where you bought that 1977 Dow VP eight years ago and just found it was corked when going to decant it ... should they still take it back after all this time?

[Gary Richardson]

Interesting question. I am very interested to see the other responses to this.

As a general rule, I consider this to be a buyer's risk ... Especially if you buy a bottle and cellar it for more than a few months. I rarely buy wine that I drink right away, so I may be a little more skewed to the seller's position on this question. Fortunately, I drink a moderate amount of wine and have had very infrequent unpleasant bottles.

One notable exception that I can recall to my general rule: A few years ago, I bought a 1963 Fonseca from a shop in Providence, RI. The bottle had pretty clearly been standing upright on the top shelf of the Port secion for years. Knowing that I was planning to open the bottle that night, I made an agreement with the owner that I would purchase the bottle as long as I could return it for a refund no later than the next day if it was flawed.

Happily, the bottle was perfect and it was not an issue. But, I would probably take the same approach given similar circumstance ... but with an advance agreement in place before purchasing.

-- Gary

[Daniel R.]

From a Portuguese legal perspective the answer is simple: there is a statutory 2 year period for a consumer to seek redress from the retailer. After that you would need to contact the producer.

In my experience as a buyer when we are talking of recent vintages retailers (wine shops, not supermarkets) and producers are normally happy to exchange bottles with TCA. I have never thought of trying this with Port. I guess I would never try this if I had cellared the bottles for a long time, I guess it is part of the risk..

[Moses Botbol]

If I buy from a local B&M, I will and have returned bottles with TCA (or any bad bottle) in heart beat and no one has ever given me a hard time about it. Perhaps 1 in 3, someone at the store will try the bottle. I think this is more out of curiosity than they don’t want to give me my money or exchange the bottle.

Usually it's VA rather than TCA is the reason for the return.

[Peter W. Meek]

The vast majority of my purchases are from one source - a local restaurant. I once mentioned that I had a couple of bottles of the same wine turn out to be corked. It was just a comment, not a refund request.

They went back in their records to find the wine dinner where that wine was sold (over 8 years before) and determined the price they had charged me and refunded it on the spot. They didn't want to see the bottles (poured out and recycled already), and wouldn't accept my attempt to say it wasn't necessary. Now I don't mention it when I find an old bottle that is defective, if I feel it is at least partly my risk. However I DO tend to keep buying most of my wine there (and most of my meals when I dine out).

In contrast, I ordered a bottle of fairly expensive Barolo at a fancy casino restaurant. On opening it was slightly corked. I could have drunk it, but Eva is more sensitive to TCA, so I asked for another. It was corked as well - slightly more than the first. I sent that back as well, with great trepidation (OMG, maybe I'm wrong, it's not TCA, and it's supposed to taste that way). They said there were no more bottles of that wine in the house and asked me to choose another. With that, you just don't know what the situation is: were the bottles bad or were they willing to allow a customer a couple of stupid (expensive) mistakes. The "sommelier" tasted both wines and really didn't say either way, but took the bottles away. I really wish he had said one way or the other. I would have rather been embarrassed in front of my friends than be left to wonder all these years. ( I now wonder if I would have been so strong as to wish that at the time (probably 15-20 years ago), or just in retrospect. I'm sure that I'm a much different person now vs. then.)

[Glenn E.]

I really wish he had said one way or the other.

Sommeliers are no different than the rest of us - some are more sensitive to TCA than others. My wild-assed guess would be that he wasn't one of the more sensitive types and so wasn't entirely sure one way or the other, so was willing to accept your (presumably more sensitive) assessment and get you another bottle. After two in a row, though, it's time to cut their losses and ask you to choose a different wine.

At a high-end restaurant (and a casino doesn't count in my book), I'd expect there to be multiple qualified personnel around to be able to test the wine, but even then they're going to accept your judgement on the first bottle because, as they say, the customer is always right. The first time, anyway.

[Peter W. Meek]

...At a high-end restaurant (and a casino doesn't count in my book),...

Well, it was the local branch of the Brown Derby. I think they like to consider themselves as high-end. The food was certainly very good and the menu was imaginative where it went beyond their basic steak-and-starch. The wine list was quite nice; I had no trouble finding another Italian wine to suit me. And if you judge by price, it was certainly leaning towards high-end. We were in the process of returning to the casino the proceeds of a successful foray on the gaming floor. (Hit it big? Give it back as fast as you can! )

I have to say, I didn't have a lot of confidence in the wine guy. He knew a fair bit about wine, but he may have been primarily a manager of some sort. And they did take my word on two fairly expensive bottles.

I'd expect there to be multiple qualified personnel around to be able to test the wine

That's one of the reasons I like Paesanos - rather more than half the wait-staff is better informed on wine than most of the local "pros". Of course, they don't have the suavity of a well trained sommelier; sommeliers rarely sniff a corked bottle and say, "Eeeewww!" More like, "Yes sir, I'll attend to it," which really tells you nothing except that they will attend to it. I like to have my diagnoses confirmed, and, "Eeeeww," or "Yuck," certainly does.

[Moses Botbol]

Of course, they don't have the suavity of a well trained sommelier; sommeliers rarely sniff a corked bottle and say, "Eeeewww!" More like, "Yes sir, I'll attend to it," which really tells you nothing except that they will attend to it. I like to have my diagnoses confirmed, and, "Eeeeww," or "Yuck," certainly does.

Any sommelier worth their title should expect the bottle to be bad as they should know their cellar and know the likelyhood of a bad bottle. They should also understand that is the name of the game on older bottles and just part of the business or in your case, rolling the dice.

I am hardly an expert in rating wines, but I can sense TCA like a bloodhound on a trail. Wish it was not the case actually. I would've enjoyed more bottles than I have.

[Andy Velebil]

I've never actually returned a bottle of a corked wine. Well ok, maybe one but that was a few years ago where I bought a bottle from a local wine store where I knew one of the employee's. He happened to be over at the house when I opened it and he refused to let me just pour it out. Instead he took it back to work the next day and brought me a replacement. So I guess that would count as returning one, no?

However, at a restaurant I've sent stuff back that was sub-par (corked, oxidized, etc) and have no issues doing so. I refuse to pay full restaurant mark up only to be served an off bottle.

[Peter W. Meek]

...Any sommelier worth their title should expect the bottle to be bad as they should know their cellar and know the likelyhood of a bad bottle....

At the table, they have to be skeptical. I've seen too many people use that initial taste as a sample to see whether they like the wine they picked off the menu. I've ordered wines I turned out not to like, to see what they were (how else will I discover what I DO like?). If the wine seems to be what the maker intended, I keep it - like it or no. I may drink it, or I may order something different and recork the "wrong" bottle to take home for further thought.

Now if the sommelier has discussed things with me and suggested a bottle, I might reject it if he has completely missed the boat. In this case the wine is his choice, and he must take some responsibility.

[oscarquevedo]

From the producer perspective, we don't get many complains from the clients, and I suppose our TCA incidence index is on the average of other producers. People know that 3-5/100 bottles out there are corked and they use to deal well with the risk. And the more the consumer knows about wines, the better he accepts this fatality.

In any case, if someone says to me that had bought a bottle of our wine that was corked, I immediately give a new bottle. But it's rare people complain directly to us.

[Moses Botbol]

In any case, if someone says to me that had bought a bottle of our wine that was corked, I immediately give a new bottle. But it's rare people complain directly to us.

Wow, I wish other producers were half as sporting as you when it comes to replacing bad bottles. That says a lot.

[Eric Menchen]

Now I hope I get a corked Quevedo bottle, so I have an excuse to go back to the Douro to return it for a replacement.

[Moses Botbol]

Now I hope I get a corked Quevedo bottle, so I have an excuse to go back to the Douro to return it for a replacement.

Can I just send back the cork and you take my word on it?

[Andy Velebil]

Now I hope I get a corked Quevedo bottle, so I have an excuse to go back to the Douro to return it for a replacement.

Can I just send back the cork and you take my word on it?

Yeah, but not every bottle in that case you drank was corked

[Tom D.]

Never tried it for a Port, but I recently contacted a local retailer after opening three obviously cooked bottles of Priorat he had sold me just a couple months ago, and his response was to offer me a 25% discount if I wanted to buy more!

[Roy Hersh]

Did you tell him where he could put that discount?