1910 Constantino Port

[Ron Edgington]

Hello, I'm Ron from the UK.

Bit of a cheek really but I would appreciate some guidance.

I have a bottle of Constantino's Colheita Port. The top of the label shows "MDCCCLXXVII" (I guess 1877) and at the bottom "Engarrafado em 1971". I purchased the bottle in Faro, Portugal in 1981 and it has been stored in a cupboard ever since!

I bought it as I had been given a bottle, previously, by a good friend but which had to be left with my previous wife! My good friend, who was a connoisseur, had also purchased many bottles years before and on many special occasions we sampled with great appreciation.

Why am I writing and why have I not finished it off? I don't drink at all now due to our drink/driving laws and my wife not being a driver, hence I have fallen out of the habit. Plus, It's a shame to think of it in a cupboard when someone might really appreciate it, so I am looking to you for guidance as to how and where to sell it and, of course, to get the right price. I have several photo close-ups which I can forward but cannot seem to do so here.

Any suggestions please. Regards

[Roy Hersh]

You have come to the right place and thanks for stopping by. I am sure you will have no problem selling that bottle as it is rare and Constantino Colheitas are always great. It is hard to put an exact estimate on the bottle but it is certainly worth in the range of $600-900 USD if you were to put it up at auction it might go for more, but it also might sell for slightly less. Good luck and my suggestion is to put it up at auction with Christie's in London, unless someone here gets in touch w/ you to buy it.

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Ron,

Before I go to far, can you post some pics of the bottle? It always helps us to see pictures first so we can give a more accurate appraisal. I can say that fact it hasn't been well stored (in a cupboard) will reduce the overall value.

[Ron Edgington]

Thanks for your replies.
I did try to add a couple of pictures but could not manage it, please tell me (in words of one syllable) exactly how to go about it. I guess you are using a different system to what I am used to, I'm normally quite capable.
Regards

[Andy Velebil]

Ron,
sorry for the delay getting back to you.

below where you post a reply, there is a tab called "attachements" If you click on it, you can upload a file from your computer. Just make sure the photo isn't too big. If still you're having issues you can send them to me and I can do it for you. Just click the Email icon under my name on the right.

[Ron Edgington]

Hi Andy
I just don't understand what the problem is. I tried to send more than one photo but could not. I retried, hoping to send the file containing 6 photos but could not.
I then tried emailing you but could not see any facility to upload photos (top or bottom) or to copy/paste, and I could not see your complete address to try by using my supplier.
Daily, at work, I send loads of photos by email and privately too so I am a little frustrated ?
Will you advise your complete email address please and I will try again. Mine is ronedgington@gmail.com
It is 11pm here and I will be in bed soon. If not tonight, I will check again in the morning before I go to work.
Regards
Ron Edgington

[Andy Velebil]

Here are some pics Ron sent me

[Al B.]

Now that I have seen the bottle, I can tell you that you have a bottle of 1910 colheita from Constantino - the ancestors of the current owners of Quinta do Crasto. I think Roy's estimate for the auction price is way higher than would actually be achieved in the UK; Constantino 1927 (a better vintage) sold for £140 in late 2008 - our of which the seller had to pay about 20% and the buyer about 20% in commission to the auction house. Net to the seller was about £85. You also suffer from the fact that Constantino is not a well known name in the UK and also that the UK is not a well known market for colheita ports.

A bottle of Sandeman 1911 was sold in summer 2009, that's about as close as I can find to your bottle. That sold for £140 so netted about £85 a bottle for the seller.

While I am sure you could sell the bottle, please have realistic expectations as to the price that you might achieve. You may get as much as Roy has suggested, but if you sell it as a single bottle badly stored (was it stored upright?) then I suspect that you are likely to get a lot less than $600 less commission. You have also missed the anniversary market as there are very few people around who were born in 1910 and are still inthe market to buy birth year port.

I suggest that you try your local auction house rather than Christies.

[Ron Edgington]

Hi

Thanks for all the help and the comments, I take note of the advice.

The fact is that it will be unlikely that I will be getting around to drinking it. I do have very fond memories of the taste but that was in a "previous life".

The only time that I get to enjoy a drink now is when I am on holiday and in a warm climate, I have no real preferences. This has resulted from our drink/driving laws plus my wife not driving. So, rather than just leave it in storage, I thought I would see whether it has any worth and that is now quite clear.

My main concern was, that if I was to sell it, how could I transport it? That too has been answered.

I have decided, therefore, that I will be putting it on eBay during this week, once I have found a transit box, and see what happens.

I have found this most interesting, and fascinating, and wish you all well.

Regards

Ron Edgington

[Derek T.]

Ron,

If you struggle to find a transit box please send me an email or private message (using the buttons to the right of this post) with your address and I will happily post an empty one to you.

Best of luck on Ebay.

Regards
Derek

[Derek T.]

A bottle of this wine is now available on www.ebay.co.uk - I assume it is Ron's bottle.

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

A bottle of this wine is now available on http://www.ebay.co.uk - I assume it is Ron's bottle.

Derek

Would appear so since some of his discription is information we've given him. That's a hefty asking price for a Colheita stored for almost 20 years in a cupboard and for the UK, which doesn't exactly command high prices for Colheita's.

[Eric Menchen]

But it comes with a decanting thing.

[Ron Edgington]

Hi
Just so there is no confusion, it is NOT my bottle on ebay. My "score" is 426 and 100%.
I am including, below, the text on my listing which was scheduled for Sat 22.15. My start price was £0.99 plus £5.00 carriage and NO reserve. On Friday evening my listing was cancelled by eBay. I spoke to a rep who kindly emailed me this text for re-submission with certain conditions (my original listing was completely deleted!). I re-submitted, with their conditions and for the same time, and found another email at 18.20 (Sat) cancelling again! eBay closed at 18.00.
I expressed my anger in two emails and received this early today (Sun)
(I understand that you didn't intend to breach our policy. However, we had to remove your listing as eBay.co.uk strictly prohibits sale of champagne, port and wine irrespective of they having collectable value.
All other collectable alcohol may be sold if sellers meet the collectable alcohol requirements. I kindly request you not to re-list it.

"I AM OFFERING FOR AUCTION THIS ONE BOTTLE
of
CONSTANTINO'S
COLHEITA
1910
I am sure that interested bidders will know more of the history of this vintage port and of the producers than I, however, "bottled in '71, this incredibly rare example is soft and slightly sweet and has ripe fruit with hazelnut flavours". All relevant details can be noted from the pictures.
I have had this bottle since 1981, since when it has remained on a cool, dark shelf. I purchased it in Portugal to replace an identical bottle, given to me in 1973, but which had to be left after a divorce! Other bottles, from the same source and owned by a good friend and connoisseur, were consumed in 1973 and I have very happy memories of the taste. I do not drink any more, only on holidays, so it needs to find a good home".

I asked for your advice and valued everything that was said. It would have been very easy to have manipulated the "storage" but that is not my style. You will be aware that there are still many examples of "Port" for sale on eBay, how and WHY I am at loss to understand and I have been invited to report them to eBay? I don't think so!

I must now consider what other options are available to me, it's thick snow outside so I think I will leave it until after Christmas. I'm not sure that a dealer would be interested in just one bottle. One of your members did make an offer for the bottle since my last message and, very kindly, posted a carriage box f.o.c which was received yesterday. We'll see.
Best wishes, especially now, and thanks again.
Ron

[Glenn E.]

Ron,

You have to be very careful with your wording. If the section in bold italics is your listing, then I believe the problem is that you claimed to be selling a bottle of 1910 Constantino Colheita - in other words, you claimed to be selling a bottle of Port. You aren't allowed to sell Port, but you are allowed to sell an old bottle.

What you have to do is carefully state that you are selling a collectable old Port bottle. Not a bottle of Port, but an old Port bottle. The difference is subtle, but in once case you're selling alcohol (not allowed) while in the other case you're selling a bottle which, coincidentally, contains some alcohol.

That's how it works in the US, at least, and it wouldn't surprise me if it is the same in the UK.

[Derek T.]

A bottle of this wine is now available on http://www.ebay.co.uk - I assume it is Ron's bottle.

Apologies for making the incorrect assumption, Ron.

[Ron Edgington]

I note Glenn's comments and now that Christmas is over I might try again. I have to say that I cannot see much difference in my wording to those that remained in the auction and eBay assured me that they would not remain, but they did.
Anyway, thanks again for the advice.
Ron

[Roy Hersh]

To our UK friends:

Can you please shed some light as to how bottles of Port can be sold on Ebay? I know it can't be done in the USA but read quite often about this phenomenon in the UK. Please enlighten us and help out Ron at the same time. This is truly fascinating.

BTW, the price I quoted was for what well stored bottles would fetch here in the USA. I clearly missed the mention of being stored in a cabinet (kitchen or otherwise) but should certainly have factored in that Ron mentioned he was from the UK. Prices here for top notch old Colheitas like Constantino from solid years like 1910 (for Colheita) tend to cost a lot more in our market than on the other side of the pond where Colheita is pretty much ignored by the vast majority of retailers, no less Port drinkers (of course we know about a dozen or two over there that would be thrilled to drink a 1910 Constantino any day of the week ... but they're a rare and strange bunch of Brits afterall).

Good luck Ron. I do hope that our UK friends help you untangle the mystery of Ebay Port selling. I'd love to understand it myself.

[Derek T.]

I think the Ebay rules are a bit of a lottery in the UK. If your sale gets through before the Ebay police spot it you are ok. If not, they blast your auction off the site regardless of how clever you try to be with the wording.

I think the difference between here and the US is tat Ebay UK will not be concerened with the prospect of someone suing them for not allowing them to sell something illegaly. Regardless of the "bottle with incidental contents" v "bottle of port" distinction it is illegal for private individuals to sell alcohol in the UK without a license so Ebay would win the argument in court every single time. There are no loopholes in the laws of truely civilised countries

[Eric Menchen]

Here in the US, there is in fact a lot of alcohol sold on eBay; by licensed sellers that have registered with eBay as such. I've not bought any from there, however as the prices seem higher than elsewhere.