Will ORGANIC Ports ever become popular?

[Glenn E.]

The process of distillation basically ensures that the ethanol you will ingest will be pretty much the same organic or not once the process is complete, making Organic in my mind, a marketing gimick.

There is some truth to that, but I think that the whole "organic" movement goes beyond just the chemicals being used. Or at least it did originally.

Ethanol is ethanol, but if the process used to grow the grapes and create the ethanol is not organic then there is extra damage being done to the environment. Part of the original organic ethos was to keep bad chemicals out of our food, but another part of it was to reduce the stress that our massive farming and food generation enterprises cause to the environment.

These days, though, the "organic" tag is mostly just a marketing gimmick. What David is doing at Panascal might be more in line with the biodynamic movement, which is sort of the original intent of "organic" but on steroids. Irony intended.

[Jeff G.]

The process of distillation basically ensures that the ethanol you will ingest will be pretty much the same organic or not once the process is complete, making Organic in my mind, a marketing gimick.

There is some truth to that, but I think that the whole "organic" movement goes beyond just the chemicals being used. Or at least it did originally.

Ethanol is ethanol, but if the process used to grow the grapes and create the ethanol is not organic then there is extra damage being done to the environment. Part of the original organic ethos was to keep bad chemicals out of our food, but another part of it was to reduce the stress that our massive farming and food generation enterprises cause to the environment.

These days, though, the "organic" tag is mostly just a marketing gimmick. What David is doing at Panascal might be more in line with the biodynamic movement, which is sort of the original intent of "organic" but on steroids. Irony intended.

which is why i loved David's point about making it sustainable and not necessarily organic.

[Andy Velebil]

David,

Many thanks for dropping in and clarifying what TFP does regarding their Organic vineyards. I do have some follow up questions if you have the time...

Good afternoon,

3. The number one problem in running a vineyard organically in the Douro is the management of weeds, where the earth patamares built in the 1970's and 1980's oblige the dependence on the use of herbicides....

What was the change to the patamares structure during the 1970's and 1980's that makes them so dependent on herbicides?

...In summary, all farmers should have a small parcel of their vineyards run organically in order to promote better vineyard practices. I am essentially a believer in Sustainable Viticulture, where the objective is to eliminate up to 80-90% of synthesized products, however the 10-20% that is used makes the running of these vineyards possible on an overall scale, with much greater effects to any viticultural region.....

....Organic viticulture does not produce better Ports than a sustainable viticulture, and one must remeber that anyone who runs a vineyard organically is normally someone who pays much more atention to their vineyard. It is this attention, and manageing the right environmental balance in a vineyard that produces the quality benefits.....

Like many things in life balance is the key and this has to be one of the best philosophy from a producer I've heard. Many producers, especially here in California, take the stance that going 100% organic is the cure all to anything and everything and in and of itself produces better wines. A philosophy that irks me as this type of all or nothing mentality always seems so short-sighted and seems destined to failure in the long run. I guess that has proven true as you pointed out what happened in the 1970's and 1980's with overuse of herbicides.

Your statement about those farmers who are practising organic or sustainable farming paying more attention to their vineyards rings true and probably has more to do with them growing better fruit than just the art of "going organic" by itself. Either way it's a win for the producer producing a better overall product and the consumer getting a better product.

Off topic, but I've got ask.....2010 saw some tough growing conditions across the board, while I know it's still early, how'd things fair during the 2010 harvest?

Thanks again for dropping in

[Guimaraens]

Andy,

Up until 1970, almost all vineyards planted in the Douro on Terraces had Xist Dry stone walls supporting them, where the weeds do not grow. The 1970's brought a new era of building terraces that were mechanisable, and where the terrace walls were left as erath, rather than buiding the dry stone walls. The expansion of the trade and the shortage of labour contributed during the next 20 years to this type of vineyard playing a large role in the region.
Whilst today I criticise this type of planting, we are only where we are now as a result of the lessons learn't from these initial mechanised vineyards,

What I do criticise strongly is the farmers and shippers that continue to use this outdated and incorrect method of building terraced vineyards, and above all the local authorities that authorise this, when everyone knows that new and more sustainable methods have been introduced!!!!!!

Regarding the 2010's, I am still waiting for the second winter!! (see not written earlier today in topic regarding Vintage Declarations)

[Roy Hersh]

David,

We appreciate you dropping by to add your expertise and hands on experience with organics and sustainable farming practices.

In 1992, inspired by my father, Bruce Guimaraens, we converted a vertical planting and a patamare (terraced) vineyard to organic at Quinta do Panascal. I believe this to have been one of the most important decisions we made in the last 20 years for our viticulture in the Douro.

The highlighted part of the quote, is an amazing statement in its own right.