Extended time of DECANTING Port

[Roy Hersh]

I have often received emails and comments, asking why I tell people to increase their duration of decanting Ports, especially Vintage Ports. It seems that I was one of the very first to be a contrarian and go against the wisdom of those who used one to two hours as their rule of thumb for decanting Vintage Ports.

Yes, I disagree with that wisdom and have gained some experience over the past 20+ years of opening a few bottles here and there. What I have found is this:

Without question, after opening a few bottles of VP in my lifetime I can guarantee that extended decanting of this wine normally make it taste better. Opponents of my point of view, point out that by extending the time a Port sees in the decanter is akin to artificially aging the wine, softening the tannins and changing the way it performs. I don't disagree.

However, decanting a Vintage Port for a longer period of time will:

a. provide a darker color, (kind of like oxygenated blood) the longer it sits in decanter.
b. gain density of mouthfeel (viscosity/body weight).
c. slightly soften or tame tannins the longer it sits open (this is not necesaarily a positive outcome).
d. increase the aromatic profile of Ports that are not ancient. After a certain age, I do not recommend prolonged decanting. With experimentation with over 1,300 bottles of VP in all sizes, to compare a variety of all age bottles. The aeration of very old...read pre-1955 vintage Port should see far less time in decanter and for bottles like the 1927 Taylor for example, I would do one gentle decanting and then just drink straight away.
e. although the wine will certainly be softer, it will also provide the chance for the alcohol to blow off to some degree and also to integrate with more time open. This is especially useful when trying cask samples and young Ports, as well as specific producers that make wines that wind up with a bit more alcohol than others.

I started to voice this opinion to anyone that would listen, circa 1995. Today there are lots of people who have been converted and share similar thoughts, but also plenty of folks that think I'm nuts, although I don't know for sure ... if that has anything to do with decanting Port.

I'd be interested to read, what others have found.

[Otto Nieminen]

I was certainly won over to your philosophy when I experimented with an average VP - Ferreira 1982. I had many times recieved good advice from you, but the recieved wisdom was that VP should not be decanted long. So two friends and I opened the bottle, decanted it and took small glasses of it immediately. We monitored the progress over our dinner by sniffing and taking small sips about every ½ hour. After dinner, about four hours after decanting, we started drinking the port. The alcohol wasn't as evident on the nose or on the palate and the scent had blossomed. What I hadn't realised was that Ferreiras need even more time, but even at four hours it was much more enjoyable than at the suggested two hours.

[Andy Velebil]

I to agree with your philosophy of longer decanting times. Just this past weekend at a dinner I opened a 1986 Dows Quinta Do Bofim, decanted for about 3 hours prior to the first full glass (although several small samples along the way). Still some alcohol apparent and slighlty muted flavors. By the 4-5 hours it was really starting to go strong and all the alcohol blew off leaving a wonder show of flavors and a strong finish. I wanted to go a little longer, but, that was not to be as several of my slightly younger friends (mid-20's) tried it and kept asking me for more and more. Since a couple of them had never had port how could I deny them the oportunity to experience port for the first time.

BTW they loved it and one, who has never had port in his life, took the label off and keep it so he could go hunt down a bottle.

[Roy Hersh]

Thanks guys.

Now can't somebody please post here with either controversial commentary or a dissenting opine?

It makes for really short and boring threads when no one is the contrarian!

[Jay Woodruff]

I think that all ports should be opened, straw inserted, and the port should be sucked out as quickly as possibly allowing for minimal aeration.



If you do not have a straw, either drink directly from the bottle or pouring into a left over SuperGulp cup from 7-11 and chug it as fast as possible while your friends chant the name of the Quinta!

How's that Roy?

[Alan Rath]

Roy, the only point I'll take a bit of issue with is "provide the chance for the alcohol to blow off to some degree and also to integrate with more time open".

Here's why I say this: the boiling point of water is 100 deg C (212 F, as everyone knows). Ethanol has a boiling point of about 78 deg C (~173 deg F). What this means is that, although Ethanol (sometimes abbreviated EtOH) has somewhat higher volatility (vapor pressure, in chemistry terms), it's not really that much more than water. Amazingly, even simmering or boiling a mixture of EtOH and water will take quite a while to evaporate most of the alcohol (and it will never completely disappear). Here are a couple of links I found with a quick search (scroll down about 2/3 the way on the first one, although the salt discussion at the top is also quite interesting):

Einstein

ochef

So, leaving a glass or decanter of port out in the open, at room temperature (or worse, for this process, cellar temp) is going to take a long time to see any significant change in alcohol percentage, certainly days.

Secondly, I often hear people talk about the alcohol "integrating," but the fact is that ethanol is a very stable compound, doesn't change it's chemical structure, doesn't change it's flavor in any way, and the notion of alcohol "integrating" somehow in a way that makes it less obtrusive is, unfortunately, an old wives tale :?

Other than that, I'm happy to benefit from your experience showing improvements in many Ports from longer decanting periods

My wife would be aghast that someone actually encouraged me to engage in a dissenting discussion - she's spent the last 25 years attempting just the opposite

Cheers,
Alan

[Roy Hersh]

There is a funny thing about scientific studies and the approach, lots of people may still disagree. Look how Darwin's theory is now being trashed, as the perfect example.

[Andrew Stevenson]

Roy, the only point I'll take a bit of issue with is "provide the chance for the alcohol to blow off to some degree and also to integrate with more time open".

So, leaving a glass or decanter of port out in the open, at room temperature (or worse, for this process, cellar temp) is going to take a long time to see any significant change in alcohol percentage, certainly days.

Secondly, I often hear people talk about the alcohol "integrating," but the fact is that ethanol is a very stable compound, doesn't change it's chemical structure, doesn't change it's flavor in any way, and the notion of alcohol "integrating" somehow in a way that makes it less obtrusive is, unfortunately, an old wives tale :?

Well that's obviously all correct. So it must be other more volatile compounds that give the impression that "some of the alcohol has blown off" and that the "alcohol has become more integrated" (those these two are probably the same thing): I know I perceive the "spiritiness" of port and other wine to change over time.

[Alan Rath]

Andrew, that's a good point, although the concentration of any other volatiles is much lower than EtOH to start. If you want to get a bit of a quantitative measure of the alcohol, observe the "tears" or "legs" in your glass. The height of the legs is a direct measure of the alcohol concentration. So, pour a glass, let it equilibrate to room temperature for a while (if it's originally at cellar or fridge temp, that could take upwards of an hour). Then mark the height of the point where the tears are forming. Now let the glass sit out for however long you like, and compare the tearing point to your mark (make sure the room temp hasn't changed, of course). If it is lower, the alcohol has decreased. If it hasn't changed, the EtOH concentration hasn't changed.

Cheers,
Alan

[Derek T.]

I'm no scientist but I do know that any wine will taste smoother with and will show less alchohol a few hours after opening. I love VP and can appreciate it after 5 minutes, an hour, 4 hours or 24 hours - all of which have a different taste and a different experience. ALL GOOD !

My recommendation to novice VP drinkers is decant early and taste small amounts at different times before serving. Once you find your optimum decanting period for your taste use it to get the best out of your precious bottles of VP

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

Twice in the past two years (not counting 47 examples of this in June and July), I intentionally scribed "evolutionary" tasting notes, where I noted ALL organoleptic developments in a VP over one or two days, making detailed notes every few hours (except for sleep time).

I don't care what scientific proof ETOH provides, I can assure you that along with countless other experiences ... alcohol does blow off and with time, in VP, most often there is a slow but subtle integration.

[Doug Zdanivsky]

I couldn't drink the '83 Dow I had until it had decanted for 10 hours (way too hot, bitter, too much alcohal on the nose), and it only got better after that..

Being my first Port, I sipped it at 2-3 hour intervals to experiment, and from the 10th hour on it went from drinkable, to fabulous..

I polished it off on the 3rd day..

[Steve Saxon]

I would like people to chime in on they're rule of thumb for decanting by decade.

Example: 1977 VP 6 hours
1985 VP 10 hours

I'm thinking of opening either a 70 Grahams, 77 Dow or a 85 Grahams for Thanksgiving, and need a decanting range.
Thanks

[Derek T.]

I'm not experienced enough to advise on this but, FWIW, my preference is to open early and taste often so that I can learn how the wine changes through time. If you decant a bottle and leave it for 10 hours before tatsing it how can you know when it is at it's best? It may taste fantastic at 10 hours but may well have been spectacular at 5 hours and you missed it :x

[Roy Hersh]

One of the best parts of decanting is watching and tasting the wine as it develops in the decanter. I take some tiny sips along the way, while the Port opens up. If I "plan" to let the wine decant for 10 hours and it is ready at 5 (as per your comment) I would pour it back into the original bottle recork it and then pour from the bottle when it is time to be served.

[jon bricken]

This will be my first posted tasting note here.

10:00 am opened the bottle. Noticed that the cork came out easily and in one piece. Saturated from tip to tip but no leekage. While decanting there was very little sediment. The color was ruby fading towards browinish. Poured a little taste. Very alcoholic and little else on the nose. No decernable legs. In the mouth the overwelming flavors were alcohol and tannin, but there was a gleam of fruit hiding.

2:00 pm Tried again. No noticable change in color or character in the glass. Still alcolholic and tanic but the fruit is more present especially in the finish. Very tanic.

8:00 After dinner my wife and I poured two glasses. It is slightly darker and the tanin and alcoholic components have almost faded, but still no legs. The nose is still reticent and not givving much at all. In the mouth the hiddeen fruit is starting to sing. A mouthful of cherries and spices (my wife thinks cloves - who am I to argue). The finish is short and it is not a mouth coating drink, but a subtile beauity.

Monday 8:00 Saved one glass for day two. If I did not know what wine was in the glass I would swear someone changed it. The wine is now almost opaque ( I have never seen this in a wine which was decanted???) and it had visible legs as I swirrled it around. The nose was beautiful, fruit and prunes-raisins present. In the mouth the wine had a bigger feel and the finish was a little longer. We both never experienced such a change in a wine by allowing it to sit in a decanter over night.

From now on I will give all my older ports more time to recover from their sleep in the bottle.

[Roy Hersh]

Excellent post, and another convert!

I was laughing out loud just picturing you and your wife shocked beyond belief at the change in the wine. Extended decanting is not for everybody, but it has worked for me for 2+ decades. I still get a kick when I read folks tasting notes when they don't like the Port that should have rocked. My first question is how long did you decant the bottle. The response is usually ... "long enough to make sure there was no more sediment. I even had the bottle standing up for two days."

[jon bricken]

What is odd about extended decanting is that this is completely opposite of what I do with older bordeaux's (20+ yrs).

If I had done this with any of my 20 year old wines they would have fallen apart by day two.

Live and learn.

[Steven Kooij]

demolizer, a 20 year old VP from a good year is still YOUNG... 8)

[jon bricken]

I was reffering to 20 year old Bordeaux's.

Sorry.