Blind Tasting: Solera vs. Vintage Madeira

[Roy Hersh]

I have been having a fun discussion with a friend who recently was able to tell a Solera from the 19th century from a Vintage Madeira. Then again, he was not tasting blind so label bias is certainly possible.

For those here who are seriously into Madeira and have had enough older bottlings of Solera, do you think you could blind taste through a flight and pick out a Solera from the rest of the Vintage Madeiras? If so, what if you didn't even know there was a Solera in the flight, would you still taste something that would lead you to believe there was one that stuck out in the crowd (given like years/styles/grapes)?

[Marco D.]

I think this would be very difficult. So many variables come into play that effect the wine's taste (vintage conditions, type of heating, time in cask, time in bottle, etc).

About the only thing I would say is that given the year, if the wine tasted unusually fresh, youthful, and fruit-filled, then it then "MIGHT" be a solera? The Blandy's 1811 comes to mind... I couldn't believe how youthful that wine was...

[Peter Reutter]

I tasted old Soleras vs. old Vintages before and I was NOT able to tell the Soleras from the Vintages in most cases. But then again I am not a professional wine taster.
Just as Marco said, if one of the wines was unusually youthful and fresh, then you might me able to tell a Solera fomr the Vintage Madeiras. And as you mentioned the 1811 Solera (probably refering to the Blandys Grabham Comemoration Solera) I tasted it last week and it was so highly acidic and overconcentrated that I never would have taken it as a Solera but very well as an old Vintage with long cask ageing. However it had been recorked in the 1960ies, so anything is possible...
Jus trying to say that additionally to the styles and grape varieties the time in cask/bottle, age and all the storing conditions offer so many variations as well that (for me) it is probably impossible to tell the difference for many old Soleras.

[Eric Ifune]

Jumping on the bandwagon, if I knew that one wine in a lineup was a solera, I might be able to pick it up. If I didn't know, I'd probably be hard pressed.

[Steve Pollack]

I have been having a fun discussion with a friend who recently was able to tell a Solera from the 19th century from a Vintage Madeira. Then again, he was not tasting blind so label bias is certainly possible.

For those here who are seriously into Madeira and have had enough older bottlings of Solera, do you think you could blind taste through a flight and pick out a Solera from the rest of the Vintage Madeiras? If so, what if you didn't even know there was a Solera in the flight, would you still taste something that would lead you to believe there was one that stuck out in the crowd (given like years/styles/grapes)?

Confession time: I am the friend that Roy referred to. The wine in question is the 1875 Cossart Gordon Camara de Lobos Solera, and that was the only Madeira that I tasted that evening. My experience with Soleras is rather limited, and after discussing this topic with Roy and reading the opinions of others with more tasting experience, I'm sure that it was label bias that led to my conclusion.

In my opinion, in the interest of scientific research, this calls for a blind tasting of several older vintage Madeiras with 2 or 3 older Soleras tossed in to the mix! Anyone else agree?

[Andy Velebil]

In my opinion, in the interest of scientific research, this calls for a blind tasting of several older vintage Madeiras with 2 or 3 older Soleras tossed in to the mix! Anyone else agree?

Outstanding idea

[Moses Botbol]

I don't think I could tell, and if I did, it was luck. As Peter mentioned, unless one was quite different, that would be the only clue.

I have seen the same wine poured into two different tasting glasses and people thought the samplea were a different wine so I will believe just about anything...

[Roy Hersh]

A great time to revisit this topic!

Alan, would you like to add anything ... or anyone else, of course.

[Ray Barnes]

Although I have not read anything from this thread until today, I think Mr. Pollack's suggestion is excellent. Especially if this tasting happens anywhere in the Pacific Northwe(s)t.

[Roy Hersh]

Sadly, I don't own a single bottle of Solera Madeira anymore.

[Steve Pollack]

Sadly, I don't own a single bottle of Solera Madeira anymore.

I think I may have one tucked away. In the interest of scientific research I would be happy to bust it out!

[Alan Gardner]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this one. Too busy in December, then travelling until this week.

Our group has attempted the comparison several times - but usually non-blind (only once blind). We've also tried the same 'wine' bottled at different times from barrel. I'm 'fairly' confident that if given a solera plus a vintage of similar age I could distinguish them 'more than 50% of the time'. But it's really hard to decide on a just a single bottle (although easier if you know the age). In particular the 1875 Malvasia has been 'sampled' several times and our results (informal) were
BEST Early vintage bottlings
NEXT Later vintage bottlings
LEAST Solera bottlings

After a series of these tastings maybe 15 years ago, we stopped buying soleras for the group (although I still have some in my cellar) as we 'generally' found they lacked the definition of a vintage madeira.

But (the most important part) I'd love to do this comparison blind. I'm guessing that sourcing the soleras is going to be more challenging (based on my cellar), but can potentially (would need permission from my group in a few situations) source the following - ONLY ONE of which do I have the corresponding vintage wine.

So here's the current inventory - if enough of you have the vintage equivalents let's start a groundswell here.

1808 Blandy Malmsey
1822 Avery's Verdelho
1863 Blandy Malmsey
1864 Gran Cama de Lobos (grape not specified)
1870 Da Camera Lomelino Sercial
1870 Da Camera Lomelino Bual
1870 Blandy Verdelho
1880 Blandy Verdelho
1898 Henriques & Henriques Sercial
1912 Adega Exportada De Vinhos Da Madeira Verdelho (also have the 1912 vintage Verdelho from D'oliveiras - both scheduled to be consumed this year - of course, non-blind).

Do these match up with any thing/body - enough to prompt a 'movement'?