Thoughts on purchasing Port by the case?

[Don M]

Hello all,
New guy here, (from PORTland, ORE) with a new guy question. I am considering moving from buying individual bottles of VP, to the occasional case, when/if the price is right. This would be to drink one, and store the rest in a cellar for 10-20 years. It looks like I'd be stuck ordering off the internet due to the lack of a local shop that stocks more than bottles (as far as I know). Aside from selecting ports which are expected to improve with age, are there any practical considerations to buying by the case?

(I did perform a few searches, but did not locate a good answer.)

Thanks!

[Richard Henderson]

With all wine collecting, I think case purchases are what most of us do. I bought my first case purchase of any wine at release of the 1985 Graham's port. Cases usually are the best discounts from merchants. I can't always get a case but I rarely buy one bottle of anything I intend to cellar and let mature. Vintgae ports ( maybe i should have capitlaized that) come in nice sturdy wooden cases with the logos of the houses stinceled on the side. These are nice to keep for a variety of uses. No cardboard cases for port. Cost and getting to watch a port mature are the most practical reasons to have cases. Maybe a numerolgist could tell us the metaphyscal benefits of a 12 bottle 750 ml case, but half bottles are 24 to a case, magnums are six to a case ( I bought a case of 92 Taylor magumns and a case of 24 half bottles of the same stuff).

[Andy Velebil]

When buying a case of young VP's I tend to get a couple extra for earlier drinking. That way I won't have to break up a full case until years later when it's time to start drinking them. Otherwise buying a case at a time is a good way to ensure you've got well stored bottles later in life. I see no draw back.

[Lamont Huxley]

Don,

I've never had the funds to purchase VP by the case, but I was living in Portland for about 6 months in 2010 and I found some excellent deals on Port at Vinopolis. I don't know whether they offer case discounts there but their prices were pretty impressive compared with the NY/NJ retail market. From what I recall they seemed to have most of their wines laid out in wooden cases on the floor. I suppose online deals and auctions are probably the best prices you can get but that shop had probably the best prices I've seen in a retail setting.

[Don M]

Ah, yes Vinopolis does appear to have a pretty good selection. I missed this shop for some reason or other. Thanks for pointing it out to me, Lamont.

And, thanks for the other replies. Sounds like I am on the right track.

Any disadvantages to half bottle cases? Seems like it might be nice to open a smaller portion from time to time, although I can't think of an occasion when I finished off a decanter and thought "thank goodness that's all gone".

[Andy Velebil]

Any disadvantages to half bottle cases? Seems like it might be nice to open a smaller portion from time to time, although I can't think of an occasion when I finished off a decanter and thought "thank goodness that's all gone".

With this crowd, you'll be drinking 1/2 bottles as a primer in no time I like 1/2 bottles for earlier drinking and so I keep my hands off the full bottles till they mature. So maybe getting a few 1/2 bottles in addition to the case is also a good idea. Personally, for long term storage I still prefer to get 750's. 1/2 bottles is just enough to make me want more

[Don M]

With this crowd, you'll be drinking 1/2 bottles as a primer in no time I like 1/2 bottles for earlier drinking and so I keep my hands off the full bottles till they mature.

Oh, that's a good perspective. (I could never get through Christmas Eve without opening at least one present.)

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Don,

Glad to see you followed through. to .

I like Vinopolis a lot. Great to receive their emails and drool over lots of goodies, not just Port.

As to buying by the case, if funds are not an issue, then the other major consideration is cellar space. IF that is not an issue, than go wild and load up. It is a great time to be a Port buyer, although it wasn't bad 20 years ago either. Lots of goodies floating around. Provenance is more important to some of us than others. There are lots of people who'd rather buy bargains at auction and take their chances but save enough money to make it worth their while. Others here would rather have the assurance that the Port they've bought is sound and grab OWC's upon release.

Then you have to figure in the value of money and opportunity costs, but if you are serious about a lifetime love affair with Vintage Ports, then there is no better way to go. Just my

Glad to have you join us. Watch the Offline Forum, as if you are willing to drive up the 3 hrs. to get here, we do lots of Port tastings here.

[Stewart T.]

I buy wine to drink, not to collect, so I don't mind buying a case of Port with a 40-50 year life span and then pop open a bottle every 3-5 years to see how it is doing. That's part of the fun for me is seeing the wines evolve. Yes, 50 years from now i'll be down to my last bottle, but i don't think i'm gonna care that much by that time :)

What I aspire to - and slowly, slowly getting there - is to get cases (or at least multiple bottles) of various years so that I can stagger the wines that I'm opening. I may open a bottle from a case, and in waiting 3 more years for the next ones, i'm opening the first bottles from other cases so it doesn't seem like so bloody long of a wait!

Of course, I also tend to go after good values as well, and there are plenty of affordable drinkers out there that I'll open for those parties where nobody appreciates an amazing Port, or to fill in between those 3-5 year bottles, or those evenings when I'm sitting at my computer, working on SEO and database backups for fortheloveofport.com and somebody asks a great question about buying cases...

[Don M]

or those evenings when I'm sitting at my computer, working on SEO and database backups for fortheloveofport.com and somebody asks a great question about buying cases...

Or when you have to patiently have new users to log out, and log back in again.

Yep, I am (trying to get) in it for the drinking enjoyment over the years, much like you. Hence the info gathering thread. Thanks for your perspective.

There are lots of people who'd rather buy bargains at auction and take their chances but save enough money to make it worth their while. Others here would rather have the assurance that the Port they've bought is sound and grab OWC's upon release.

Thanks Roy.
I am not really experienced enough to try my luck on auction bargins, so I'll stick to more reliable sources. And, while my Wife would like to relegate me and my possessions to as small a space as possible, cellar space isn't much of an issue. (Old house. Full cellar.)

Do OWC prices often drop after initial release, or do they only rise? Not sure if reviews tend to affect prices dramatically.

Thanks again

[Eric Menchen]

With all wine collecting, I think case purchases are what most of us do.

I may be in a minority here, but I had over 300 bottles of VP before I bought my first case. And that was actually a purchase of two six-packs of Quinta do Vesuvio, but I count it as a case purchase since I bought them at the same time. A lot of Port comes in six bottle cases, which I think is also a nice quantity and I've bought a lot of sixers. And in a few of those instances, like Andy I bought an extra bottle or two to taste before I break open the case.

Halves are nice for regular drinking, but remember that they will mature more quickly. The cork size is still the same, so you have greater air exchange relative to a full 750. There is also less thermal mass and more relative bottle surface area, so storage conditions are more critical. I have halves, but the things I really intend for long term aging are 750s.

Do OWC prices often drop after initial release, or do they only rise? Not sure if reviews tend to affect prices dramatically.

I think there is sometimes discounting when the next general declaration comes out. I bought a fair amount of 2003 at good prices when the 2007s came out, e.g. Graham's for $40. But I don't think we can make too many generalizations about price. And for the big names like Taylor and Fonseca, I don't recall any price dropping.

Reviews of Port in the mainstream press aren't all that common, so there haven't been many cases of dramatic price increases based on reviews. That isn't to say, however, that this doesn't happen. Suckling gave 2007 Dow VP 100 points and the price shot from the $60-80 range to $120 or more. It has since returned to $75+. Was Dow the best of the vintage and do I care? No at least on the second, and probably the first.

[Moses Botbol]

I like to buy by the case when possible; comes with a free storage container! Comes down to price and opportunity for me. I'll be singles just the same. I strike when the ducks are in line. If 12 is too pricey, try a 6 pack like Vesuvio that is so darn pretty, I am affraid to try one! I've bought tawny and LBV by the case too.

If possible, like Andy said, I like to have a couple of singles beyond the case so I know what it tastes like at purchase and down the road without having to open the case.

[Glenn E.]

With all wine collecting, I think case purchases are what most of us do.

I may be in a minority here, but I had over 300 bottles of VP before I bought my first case. And that was actually a purchase of two six-packs of Quinta do Vesuvio, but I count it as a case purchase since I bought them at the same time. A lot of Port comes in six bottle cases, which I think is also a nice quantity and I've bought a lot of sixers. And in a few of those instances, like Andy I bought an extra bottle or two to taste before I break open the case.

I'm similar to Eric. I think I've only purchased 3 full cases, and all three of them were 40-yr old tawnies (1 Kopke, 1 Noval, and 1 Romaneira). I've purchased a total of more than 12 bottles of both 1985 Graham and 2003 Noval, but they were purchased over time in smaller quantities.

[Roy Hersh]

Don M wrote:
Do OWC prices often drop after initial release, or do they only rise? Not sure if reviews tend to affect prices dramatically.

As I am older than all others who have responded to this thread (except maybe Richard), naturally, I started buying Port when some of them were still in high school or college and nobody but Bill Gates and Al Gore were using the internet. My first "on release" purchase was the 1983 vintage, although at the time I was buying bottles and could not afford to buy in case lots, but at $19 for the most expensive bottling from that vintage, I was buying 4 of everything initially and prices did not move, so whenever I had enough loose cash, I'd buy another four from the same retailer and at the same price. VP did not move much back then, in the USA.

In the late 1980's and throughout the 1990's when Ports hit the market ... virtually the only place that prices went, after release, was up. Typically they were level for a couple of years, unless JS gave them monster scores. but the majority of just released VP's stayed still for 2-3 years.

1994 was the first vintage that I noticed prices escalated very quickly. That had more to do with the fact that the cigar craze had dramatically impacted the USA market, while the run up on Wall St. created a nouveau riche that was loving Vintage Port. The young Wall St., Madison Ave. and Silicon Valley types were awash in Vintage Port and sucking up cases of young juice in restaurants and shops in NYC/SF and beyond -- it was then, in 1996 that the USA surpassed the UK for the very first time, in overall purchases of Vintage Port. That was the same year the 1994's started to hit the market. Prices exploded and things shot up quickly.

The 1977 Fonseca which had languished at $39 and then $49 betwen 1990-1995, shot up to $79, $99, $129, $150, $199 and landed at $229 within a period of 24 months. I was watching six particular CA retailer(s) with the same frequency that I lovingly look at my wife and daughter today. I watched as others paid this increasingly insane prices, but was damn glad to have taken advantage at $49. That's just one example. The 1955's, 1963/1966's and 1970's were all still very affordable at the time and I had finally come into some money. Fortunately, for every up cycle in wine pricing (Napa prices REALLY escalated at this time in history too!) there is eventually, a vacuum suck in the marketplace that comes in and cleans out the "prospectors", or at least their money.

Things really changed, possibly forever, with the 2000 vintage. Like many friends back in the day, the 2000 Vintage was so highly touted ... and I loved what I tasted from very early samples ... and with "000" for the only time in our lives, invested heavilly, especially first tranch from UK markets. However, with Sept. 11th right on the heels of the implosion of the tech bubble and shortly thereafter the begining of wars etc., the 2000 Vintage Port en primeur pricing was unable to sustain itself. Within five years and at the same time as the outstanding 2003's were being released, the market was awash in Vintage Port and prices on 2000 VP's collapsed as bottles clogged the shelves with vintages back to 1997. Not dramatically, but enough so that many of those who had purchased 2000 VP futures or even bought on release, felt burned (unlike our purchases of Bordeaux from the same year that saw serious increases in pricing).

2003 was the last time that I was willing to buy case lots on release (at my age). That had more to do with the retailers undercutting their release prices down the road, than anything else. Seven years later, the market dynamics have changed again and yet again. That said, those of us old enough to remember the lesson of the 2000 VP's are "cautious" nowadays.

If between 40-50 years old, buying cases on release still makes sense if provenance is a prominent factor in your buying decisions. If older than 50, I'd say it really depends on how much you Port currently own and what your consumption pattern is like. But we have had several threads on that very topic here before, which I am sure you can find by doing a search on our forum.

I should add, that on occasion, I still purchase Port by the case, but when that happens they are always a minimum of 25 years of bottle age and as likely to be from UK cellars, as those in the USA. I hope this gives you a different perspective.

[Richard Henderson]

Maybe I should have said many of us instead of most of us who have cellars buy by the case. Most of my local wine drinking friends with cellars buy by the case for Bordeaux, California, port Sauternes etc, if we can. I agree that I don't always buy cases but if it is something special, affordable , available and age worthy, I buy by the case. Usually there is a discount and we try it over its predicted , but ever changing , drinking window.
I think there is a tradtion started in the UK and in the producers' lodges of laying down cases of port and Madeira for births, anniversaries etc. and opening them on special life occasions such as the wedding of a child whose case was purchased and laid down at their birth. Then when that couple has a a child a bottle fromt the case is opened and a new case laid down. Or when soemone specail passes on or graduation or whatever. Others have adopted the tradition. That was my reason for laying down cases of 92 Taylor and I think Roy did the same for his daughter , aptly,named Taylor.

[Roy Hersh]

Bordeaux, California, port Sauternes

and later ...

port and Madeira

Richard is being funny. He has capitalized every other wine type except for Port ... with intent.

[Richard Henderson]

very funny roy

[Eric Menchen]

I don't disagree with anything said here yet. I think part of what Roy's longer post gets to is that Port prices are often affected more by macro-economic conditions and trends than by a general Port-specific rule. Will the 2009s go up or down in price? I think that will correlate more to the overall health of the world economy than anything else.

[Glenn E.]

As I am older than all others who have responded to this thread (except maybe Richard), naturally, I started buying Port when some of them were still in high school or college and nobody but Bill Gates and Al Gore were using the internet. My first "on release" purchase was the 1983 vintage

You certainly have me in calendar years, but I think I may have you in internet years. I was using the internet (not just BBSes) before you made your first "on release" purchase of the 1983 vintage. There was no "www" back then and sending an email was a VERY different experience. If you were good at it, and there was a very definite skill to getting it right, it took a couple of hours. Most email wasn't that much more efficient than USPS back then.

If I were to buy any full cases on release these days, it would be with the intent to drink the bottles young. I tend to like my VP with 30-40 years of age on it and I can't be certain that I'll be around that much longer.

Full cases of VP that already have some age, on the other hand, are still possible. Just not likely due to storage considerations for me.

[Don M]

A lot of interesting posts. Thanks to you all for taking the time to write up your thoughts and experiences. Roy's longer post reads like a monolog from a Martin Scorsese movie. Throw in a few F-bombs and a couple fugeddaboudits, and we've got a new plot treatment.

Thanks again.