Cigars and port

[Andy Velebil]

Is that you in a smoking jacket in that avatar Sean?

Yes it is him and it was quite funny when he walked down stairs wearing that at the Croft vertical a number of years ago in Boston. That was a fun night, and except for the TN's, I think we were all sworn to secrecy with the debauchery that ensued. I still remember that evening like it was yesterday.

[Roy Hersh]

I could sweart it WAS yesterday.

[Luke W]

I had a man's night with a few buddies last night. We had some Cajun rib-eye steaks followed by a bottle of 2007 Cockburn's vintage port and 1999 Opus X cigars. It was for pure recreation and not taking tasting notes, but the pairing was very nice.

[John Danza]

I think Andy mentioned the old days with wealthy guys with port and cigars. Actually, that was usually cigars and cognac after the port. While Moses mentioned Madeira and cigars (no complaints there), back in the 19th century in the heyday of Madeira parties, the ettiquette was to never smoke until after the Madeira had been tasted.

I love cigars, and I love port, but would never do them together for all the reasons noted. I really prefer to have my palate clean for the port.

[Tom Archer]

I don't smoke; and on the secondary stakes, I dislike cigarettes, am not averse to a good cigar, and quite like the smell of marijuana.

I have experimented in the past, and reckon that any form of smoking is ruinous to your palate.

So, yes, if the best port on offer is a cheap ruby, and a serious Habana is on offer - indulge; but if you've got a serious port to hand, don't ruin the occasion...

[Andrew E]

I suppose everyone has a different palate, but I've always found the pairing to be exquisite.

I wouldn't match a cigar with a vintage port, however because VP's are pretty much unique and limited, aside from the fact that they're not the ideal type of port to match a cigar to. Tawny Ports, on the other hand, are continuously released (aside from discontinued lines, a la Nimrod) with no unique aging characteristic as they're always ready to drink straight from the store, and they also have the preferred flavor characteristics to match to a cigar.

[Glenn E.]

with no unique aging characteristic

Tell that to Dirk Niepoort!

[Andy Velebil]

with no unique aging characteristic

Tell that to Dirk Niepoort!

Stop being picky, I'm sure it was an oversight that he forgot one little word..."generally"

[Andrew E]

with no unique aging characteristic

Tell that to Dirk Niepoort!

Stop being picky, I'm sure it was an oversight that he forgot one little word..."generally"

Well yes, generally, lol.

I don't know Dirk's full thoughts, but I do remember reading something about it. I think the big take away is that VP supply is much more finite than Tawny supply, and that the changes are negligible from year to year with Tawnies, meaning a fresh bottle you drank 5 years ago will be similar to one fresh one you would buy today..

[Glenn E.]

Tell that to Dirk Niepoort!

Stop being picky, I'm sure it was an oversight that he forgot one little word..."generally"

Well yes, generally, lol.

I don't know Dirk's full thoughts, but I do remember reading something about it. I think the big take away is that VP supply is much more finite than Tawny supply, and that the changes are negligible from year to year with Tawnies, meaning a fresh bottle you drank 5 years ago will be similar to one fresh one you would buy today..

Aha... you've discovered the difference between the unmanageably named "Tawnies With An Indication of Age" (aka TWAIOA) and Colheitas. What makes it confusing is that "Tawny Port" refers to both (along with basic Tawnies and Reserve Tawnies). Just like, technically, "Ruby Port" can refer to Vintage Port because it is a sub-type of Ruby Port.

10-20-30-40 year old Tawnies are what's known as TWAIOA. They're blends, they're typically bottled every year, and the Master Blender goes to great lengths to ensure that they taste the same year after year. This is probably what you actually meant, I assume?

Colheitas are year dated like Vintage Port. They're stored in cask until the producer decides to bottle some (or sometimes all), at which point they go out on the market. A Colheita bottled one year can be very different than a Colheita bottled in a different year even if they come out of the same cask. That's why Colheitas always have the bottling year on the bottle. Colheitas can improve with bottle age, though most producers (Dirk being the main exception) say that they really should be consumed as close to the bottling date as possible.

[Andrew E]

Yes, when I make the blanket statement of tawnies, I mean TWAIOA. Colheitas are just as unique to VP's for me, so I wouldn't want to take away from the wine itself.

[Tom Archer]

Colheitas can improve with bottle age, though most producers (Dirk being the main exception) say that they really should be consumed as close to the bottling date as possible.

My impression is that the consensus amongst the producers is that Colheitas do improve with bottle age, but the TWIOA (being generally more aggressively filtered) - don't.

However, most of them don't appear to have back stocks of their TWIOA bottlings to investigate from time to time. Whilst dining with one well known member of the trade last year, I noted his surprise at the quality of a 20yr tawny that had 30 years of bottle age (although it came as no surprise to me..)

[Moses Botbol]

I had two bottles of Ramos Pinto 10 & 20 with about 10 years bottle age and did not like them very much. All the freshness was gone, kind of simple and sweet. I am believer in fresh bottled tawny. My experience with Colheitas depends on the producer. Driven corked bottles have held up much better.