Tom Archer wrote:Do you think that the wines of Bordeaux, Burgundy and Champagne would enjoy the same cachet if they were not bottled and packed in a consistant and recognisable manner?
Yes. Definitely. I don't think the packaging matters a whit.
Tom Archer wrote:A clear and consistant regional identity in the manner port products are presented to the market, can only serve to add value in the eyes of the consumer.
Or make them all seem generic and uninteresting because they all look the same.
Tom Archer wrote:A clear and consistant regional identity in the manner port products are presented to the market, can only serve to add value in the eyes of the consumer.
Or make them all seem generic and uninteresting because they all look the same.
Port and Madeira bottles already have a pretty consistent design & shape that most can recognize from afar as being Port or Madeira. So much so that even non Portugal ports use a similar bottle. How many variants on the current bottles are out there for Port? They are all dark brown to black glass, have a similar shape and height. There are a few that are squat, a few with a cast logo, but that’s about it.
They wouldn't spend a fortune on wooden cases if no-one cared about it..
And those squat bottles don't fit into most racks. I have a few. I don't think they are being used for new bottlings.
Unfortunately not - some squat bottles fit into racks, but some of the ones currently used by Rozes definitely don't..
I think one of the reasons the Douro wines fail to gain adequate market recognition is the lack of regional identity. On the shelves of the wine stores they get lost in the mish-mash of wines from the New World, against which they can't compete on price.
If they had a unique and distinctive bottle shape, and possibly a distinctive labelling protocol, they would stand out as a group and be recognised.
Tom Archer wrote:I think one of the reasons the Douro wines fail to gain adequate market recognition is the lack of regional identity. On the shelves of the wine stores they get lost in the mish-mash of wines from the New World, against which they can't compete on price.
I have to disagree; Douro wines can compete against New World wines on price. For me it's the quite the opposite; Douro wines offer a lot of value compared to wines from any corner of the globe. Take Altano for instance; what wine for $10 would make that seem expensive? Perhaps that are a lot of Douro wines that may not be to the taste of some consumers, but the care and craftsmanship of Douro wines makes them a relative bargain.
I do agree that there is no regional identity to Douro wine bottles. Dao has a little, but the consumer should recognize the Portuguese name, Celo, and region name on the bottle. Since wines are divided by region at most liquor stores, hopefully the consumer will realize they are the the Spain/Portugal section.
but the consumer should recognize the Portuguese name, Celo, and region name on the bottle
But if you went into a British supermarket and quizzed people shoppng for wine, I'd wager that at least 90% would never have heard of the Douro as a wine region, let alone have any detailed knowledge of it.
On the other hand, I'd wager that the majority of wine buyers would immediately recognise a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape from its distinctive appearance.
hopefully the consumer will realize they are the the Spain/Portugal section
Where they get put alongside bottles of Spanish paint stripper, that look much the same..
but the consumer should recognize the Portuguese name, Celo, and region name on the bottle
But if you went into a British supermarket and quizzed people shoppng for wine, I'd wager that at least 90% would never have heard of the Douro as a wine region, let alone have any detailed knowledge of it.
Which has nothing to do with the packaging, and everything to do with the lack of marketing by the Douro wine region and its producers.
Tom Archer wrote:On the other hand, I'd wager that the majority of wine buyers would immediately recognise a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape from its distinctive appearance.
It's the other way around - people recognize the distinctive appearance of Chateauneuf du Pape because the region itself is famous and well-marketed, so they've looked for it on supermarket shelves before.
Most people don't go to a supermarket to browse, they go to buy and they have a list of what they want in their head, if not on paper. If they haven't heard of a product before they enter the store there's an excellent chance that they won't notice it on the shelf and buy it. Those going to purchase wine might have a more general list - they want a French red wine, or perhaps more specifically they want a Bordeaux - but a distinctive bottle isn't going to help Portuguese wines because the shoppers won't be headed for the Portugal section unless the Portuguese wine regions get off their collective butts and start doing some serious marketing.
everything to do with the lack of marketing by the Douro wine region and its producers
The IVDP has about a dozen inspectors for the 77 (I think..) bottlers in the Port/Douro wine business, giving each of them - even the small ones - an unannounced visit, on average once a week..
..talk about overkill!
Ten of those guys should be re-deployed to publicise the products - an IVDP duty that they largely ignore..
Glenn E. wrote:Most people don't go to a supermarket to browse, they go to buy and they have a list of what they want in their head, if not on paper. If they haven't heard of a product before they enter the store there's an excellent chance that they won't notice it on the shelf and buy it. Those going to purchase wine might have a more general list - they want a French red wine, or perhaps more specifically they want a Bordeaux - but a distinctive bottle isn't going to help Portuguese wines because the shoppers won't be headed for the Portugal section unless the Portuguese wine regions get off their collective butts and start doing some serious marketing.
Glenn E. wrote:Most people don't go to a supermarket to browse, they go to buy and they have a list of what they want in their head, if not on paper. If they haven't heard of a product before they enter the store there's an excellent chance that they won't notice it on the shelf and buy it. Those going to purchase wine might have a more general list - they want a French red wine, or perhaps more specifically they want a Bordeaux - but a distinctive bottle isn't going to help Portuguese wines because the shoppers won't be headed for the Portugal section unless the Portuguese wine regions get off their collective butts and start doing some serious marketing.
I think most wine buyers are browsers. List:
steak
potatoes
salad
wine
Eric,
So true that is what is usually served at most wine gatherings. Not that I am complaining mind you, cause I'll eat a good steak any day! though you can have that green leafy stuff
I agree with Moses and last week in Portugal, I tried plenty of Douro wines that sell for under 10 Euros from several producers; some new and some old. Price is not why the Douro is not competing on a grander scale. I disagree with Tom's assessment on that score. However, it is a marketing issue and the IVDP has failed miserably in recent years to promote and educate consumers and those in the trade ... after all, that is one of their most imporant roles. Hopefully, under new management, the IVDP will get back to promoting Port and Douro wines like they should. After the 8 million missing Euro debacle and the even more recent repeat issue that amounted to several hundred thousand Euros gone the same way ... it is time for the producers to say, "NO MORE ... WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT."
So I bought 2011 in OWC, and as I recall, it matched the more recent ones I've bought. Of the 2012 release, I just bought a couple of bottles, and having no obvious space in my racks, I thought I would just put them in my 1998 OWC which I've been drinking from. No such luck! The 2012 bottles are about 1/2" taller than the 1998 and won't fit in that OWC.
The 2012 bottles are about 1/2" taller than the 1998 and won't fit in that OWC
Sounds like the Symingtons are learning some bad habits from the TFP..
When you use double depth wine racking, you really notice oversize bottles - I find it necessary to tuck them away at the far end to avoid them getting snagged as you walk by..
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