Vintage Trivia

[Roy Hersh]

1. Do you know when Malvedos the SQVP of Graham's changed labels to Quinta dos Malvedos?

2. How many vintages can you name where Taylor and Quinta de Vargellas VP were produced in the same vintage?

[Henrik Lilja]

1. No!

2. 1917, 1926, 1970 and in regard to the vargellas vinha velha: 1997, 2000, 2007 and 2009!

[Henrik Lilja]

Malvedos - since 1887 a blend - but since 1998 a SQVP.

[Al B.]

2. 1917, 1926, 1970 and in regard to the vargellas vinha velha: 1997, 2000, 2007 and 2009!

I think there was also a 1912 Vargellas.

[Henrik Lilja]

Quinta de Vargellas Vintages: 1910, 1917, 1926, 1930, 1947, 1950, 1957, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2008.

If you somehow Can find any sort of documentation in regard to a Vargellas 1912 - let me know.

[Derek T.]

If you somehow Can find any sort of documentation in regard to a Vargellas 1912 - let me know.

Does this do? http://www.fortheloveofport.com/tndb/19 ... ntage-Port

[Roy Hersh]

If not, look through the PORTraits where I've uploaded the photo of the 1912 bottle of Vargellas, which I still have at home.

[Henrik Lilja]

Thanx - that will do

[Rob C.]

1. Do you know when Malvedos the SQVP of Graham's changed labels to Quinta dos Malvedos?

Is this a trick question?!

Hasn't "Malvedos the SQVP" always been labelled "Quinta dos Malvedos"? Or were the 95/96 actually SQVP but bottled under the straight "Malvedos" label?

In terms of the transition, one thing i would like to understand is whether there much difference between the actual physical vineyards that supplied the grapes for the Malvedos bottlings versus the "Quinta Dos Malvedos" SQVP, or whether these have remained largely the same throughout and the "SQVP" status has evolved by virtue of the fact that neighbouring plots that previously supplied grapes were purchased and absorbed into an enlarged Quinta over time.

[Henrik Lilja]

If not, look through the PORTraits where I've uploaded the photo of the 1912 bottle of Vargellas, which I still have at home.

Roy - I can't find the picture???

[Andy Velebil]

1. Do you know when Malvedos the SQVP of Graham's changed labels to Quinta dos Malvedos?

Is this a trick question?!

Hasn't "Malvedos the SQVP" always been labelled "Quinta dos Malvedos"? Or were the 95/96 actually SQVP but bottled under the straight "Malvedos" label?

In terms of the transition, one thing i would like to understand is whether there much difference between the actual physical vineyards that supplied the grapes for the Malvedos bottlings versus the "Quinta Dos Malvedos" SQVP, or whether these have remained largely the same throughout and the "SQVP" status has evolved by virtue of the fact that neighbouring plots that previously supplied grapes were purchased and absorbed into an enlarged Quinta over time.

Rob,

Henrik is correct. 1998 was the official change over from just "Malvedos" to "Quinta dos Malvedos" on the label. I wrote about it in an article I did for the big London Malvedos tasting. Here is the portion which explains a bit of the history of the Quinta and of the name on the label...

A little history of Quinta dos Malvedos is in order before I get to the event. William and John Graham founded Graham’s Port, now owned by the renowned Symington family, in Oporto in 1820. In 1890 the company purchased Quinta dos Malvedos, in the Douro region of Portugal, from Jose Ferreira Pinto Basto. What very few people know is Jose Ferreira Pinto Basto was Paul Symington’s grandmother’s Great-Grandfather. As fate would have it some 80 years later Quinta dos Malvedos would again be in the possession of a relative of the original owner. The Quinta sits on the north bank of the Douro River where the Tua River intersects the Douro River. It’s a stunning property with magnificent views and is about a 10-minute boat ride up-river from Pinhao, or for those who want to see the countryside, about a 2-hour drive from Pinhao.

A book published in 1899 describes Quinta dos Malvedos as “Considered to be of the very first quality among the best in the Douro. The kinds of grapes predominating there are the Touriga, Sousao, Tinta Lameira, and Mourisco for the red wines.” It wasn’t until 1970 when the Symington family was finally able to buy the Quinta back. The first vintage the Symington’s produced was the highly regarded 1970 Graham’s Vintage Port.

There is sometimes a bit of confusion about why older labels simply state “Malvedos” on them and the newer vintages state “Quinta dos Malvedos.” It’s actually quite simple as laws prevent the term “Quinta …” to be used on a label unless all the grapes used in that particular Port come from one single Quinta. Originally Quinta dos Malvedos was much smaller in size than it is today. When sold in 1890 the Quinta was only 43.9 hectares (108 acres), and it used grapes from the adjoining three vineyards (Valdossa, Albano, and Assuncao). Over the years these three vineyards were purchased and incorporated into what is the present day Quinta dos Malvedos. This more than doubled the size of Quinta dos Malvedos to its current 108 hectares (266 acres), of which 70 hectares (173 acres) is planted with vines. It wasn’t until the mid-1990’s where all the grapes finally came from the Quinta, and in 1998 the label was changed to “Quinta dos Malvedos” to reflex that.

[Rob C.]

Andy - i think you have misread my post.

Roy was asking about "Malvedos the SQVP". Malvedos pre-98 was not SQVP from what i understand - hence the SQVP was never labelled anything other than "Quinta dos Malvedos"!

More interestingly, from the description you quote, it sounds like there might not have been too much difference between the pool of vineyards contributing to pre-98 Malvedos (some part of the Quinta, others outside the Quinta) and post-98 Quinta Dos Malvedos (those vineyards that were formerly outside the quinta now having been absorbed within it).

[Andy Velebil]

Rob I read it to mean roy was asking when the change over took place. Officially it was the 1998 vintage release. But you are correct these three other vineyards which are now part of the quinta made up the blend for vintages prior to 1998.

Legally it could not be labeled as quinta dos Malvedos prior to the official incorporation of these other vineyards. Even though it all came from what is now a single quinta but then 4 separate ones.

[Andy Velebil]

I should add the three Other vineyards were not all bought at the same time but slowly bought and incorporated.

[Henrik Lilja]

Please give me a link to the vargellas 1912 picture.

[Rob C.]

2. 1917, 1926, 1970 and in regard to the vargellas vinha velha: 1997, 2000, 2007 and 2009!

I think there was also a 1912 Vargellas.

And a 1905 Vargellas (the first?), 1955 and a host of other unrealised years i am sure (Taylor siteitself has a list that seems incomplete but does, for instance, mention the 1907, 1911 and 1914)

[Henrik Lilja]

2. 1917, 1926, 1970 and in regard to the vargellas vinha velha: 1997, 2000, 2007 and 2009!

I think there was also a 1912 Vargellas.

And a 1905 Vargellas (the first?), 1955 and a host of other unrealised years i am sure (Taylor siteitself has a list that seems incomplete but does, for instance, mention the 1907, 1911 and 1914)

Look at the question once again - it is not a vargellas-complete listing - but vintages with a double declaration - both Vargellas and classic.

[Rob C.]

Sorry - my post was meant to be a response to your list of Vargellas vintages - but i quoted the wrong post!

Quinta de Vargellas Vintages: 1910, 1917, 1926, 1930, 1947, 1950, 1957, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2008.

It was also meant to illustrate a more general point: Taylor appears to have produced unreleased Vargellas VP in a number of years that were not commercially released (e.g.: 1955 - Roy's TN) so i wouldn't be surprised to see Roy come up with a much longer list when he gives the answer!

[Rob C.]

these three other vineyards which are now part of the quinta made up the blend for vintages prior to 1998.

Legally it could not be labeled as quinta dos Malvedos prior to the official incorporation of these other vineyards. Even though it all came from what is now a single quinta but then 4 separate ones.

Thanks - i had not previously appreciated this, and had always assumed that pre- and post-98 vintages were not particularly comparable in terms of the geographic area from which the constituent grapes were harvested. An interesting contrast to Vargellas (and many others i'm sure) which have always been bottled as SQVP but experienced significant growth in hectares from acquisitions of neighbouring properties.

[Henrik Lilja]

Sorry - my post was meant to be a response to your list of Vargellas vintages - but i quoted the wrong post!

Quinta de Vargellas Vintages: 1910, 1917, 1926, 1930, 1947, 1950, 1957, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2008.

It was also meant to illustrate a more general point: Taylor appears to have produced unreleased Vargellas VP in a number of years that were not commercially released (e.g.: 1955 - Roy's TN) so i wouldn't be surprised to see Roy come up with a much longer list when he gives the answer!

Another "not commercial releasen" Vargellas - now another picture is needed - both 1912 and the 1955. Its pictures like these which are really interessting - please someone upload under PORTRAITS!!!