Scotland and Independence

[Roy Hersh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT64a41 ... ata_player (sent to me by a Port loving friend in Edinburgh who is v. much pro-independence referendum).

This video provides a fascinating point of view offered up by Alex Salmond, the current First Minister of Scotland. Excellent discussion!


Here is a much more contentious interview (more aptly put, a "debate") with Alex Salmond and I enjoyed watching him handle the difficult questioning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q42xOo7HiCE

[Peter W. Meek]

Um, I think both of those links point to the same interview.

[Roy Hersh]

Here's the correct URL for the 2nd interview with Andrew Neil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q42xOo7HiCE


Thanks Peter.

(edit: Original post corrected as well)

[Alan McDonald]

Just browsing around the site and saw this thread. It is too late. Wee Eck (Salmond) sees himself as one of Scotland's legendary heroes. They all died at the hands of the English - either physically killed or just withered away.

There was a time, and not so long ago, when the scourge of the Highlands, the Cheviot sheep was responsible for exporting more value than the whole of Scotland's imports. Add whisky to that and it was indeed a prosperous country. Now, the glens are not empty, but the sheep are almost gone, the whisky industry is owned by faceless investors from foreign parts, and the oil remains a very debatable point as to who will pocket any revenue.

Scots will also always fight amongst themselves - Lowlanders against Highlanders. People still remember Glencoe. Some names are good names and some names are bad names. I am pleased I am a McDonald.

[Derek T.]

As a Scot living in England with a large family still residing north of the border I have a very definite view on this debate.

If the people of Scotland vote for independence it will be the worst thing to have happened to that country since it was covered by a one mile thick ice sheet 10,000 years ago. Portugal, Ireland and Greece have given us all the proof we need that small economies with little industrial or financial wealth to fall back on in hard times is not a good place to be. Scotland once had a strong industrial base of coal mining, farming and ship building. All of those are gone. It also once had a long list of very wealthy financial institutions. All of those are now either listed on the London stock exchange or owned by the UK government. There is oil and gas under the seas surrounding Scotland and for four decades a section of the population have somehow believed that it belongs to them. It doesn't, it belongs to the American and Norwegian companies who drill for it. It will also run out in less than three decades so the point of ownership is somewhat moot.

I love the country of my birth, but I have no wish to see it turn into an isolated failing economy that has nothing to offer its neighbours or the wider world other than a tourist destination and a glass or two of Malt whilst most of its 6 million inhabitants struggle to make a decent living or decide to leave.

If I was allowed to vote I would vote no. But I'm not allowed to vote.

[Roy Hersh]

The fact that 16 year olds WILL be allowed to vote is telling. Salmond tells tall tales and promises things that likely won't pan out. He believes that NATO will protect Scotland and that the EU will embrace the country. Then there are issues with the subs, oil as Derek mentioned ... a limited resource with a fairly finite future that won't last more than one more generation. The financial independence is questionable at best and I believe the quality of life for the inhabitants of Scotland would diminish within a decade or less. That being said, if I was born and raised and still living there, knowing the history and persecution over the centuries ... and was 16 years old ... I am positive that I would vote for independence. That being said, I am pretty sure that most level-headed Scots will not follow Salmond down this path, even though he does present a good (but flawed) case, imo.

[Alan McDonald]

Roy, Do not believe everything you have been told about Scotland's relationship with England. Most especially, be aware that the film "Braveheart" was historically as well as factually a pure work of fiction. The timeline of the film and its characters was an impossibility. Having said that Wee Eck knows just what you posted, the 16 and 17 year olds will be with him - we were all that age once upon a time. He also knows that sensible people like Derek T should not be allowed to vote because they are sensible and disagree with him. Why should foreigners living in Scotland for only a few months be given a say, when Scots, who might only be on a one or two year contract out of the country are not? Because these are also intelligent people who would vote against him.

I am a bit surprised that this is on the FTLOP site, since it has nothing whatsoever to do with Portugal or Portuguese wines, but since you started it, I assume it is OK to comment on it.

[Andy Velebil]

(Moderator hat is now on). This sub-forum is pretty all encompassing and a lot of latitude is given on what is allowed to be posted here. So long as the discussion stays civil there generally is no issues.

One of the few taboo things we generally don't allow is religion-focused posts as these always spiral downhill and get ugly since people are very passionate about the subject one way or the other. Otherwise, so long as it's civil and stays that way most posts are allowed as mentioned.

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Alan,

As Andy mentioned, this is the only area on the website where non-Portugal (wine or otherwise) topics are allowed. In 8+ years, there have been very very few exceptions to that rule. I felt that Scotland's independence conversation is at least somewhat related to Port, given the large number of Scots who began companies in the Port trade. But today, that is irrelevant, and my post truly had more to do with a nation considering its independence and seeing what others, Scots or not, thought about whether that was a good idea or even feasible. No harm, no foul. I expect there will be very diverse views, but all discussed calmly as usual.

[Derek T.]

sensible people like Derek T

Not something I am often accused of

I know exactly where you are coming from Alan. Kim Jong Salmond was on the BBC this morning trying to explain why it is just normal to expect to share a currency, be handed part of an army, navy and air force asset by, share an open border with and obtain future support and friendship from a country and a government that you have chosen to reject as being incompetent.

The man and his policies are delusional at best. I sincerely hope that the whole thing will be behind us by this time next year and the UK can get on with focussing on recovering our economy and making the country a better and stronger place for its citizens to live.

As for why this discussion is here, it's because this is a place where you can be sure to see a healthy debate on a range of subjects in a very civilised environment

[Daniel Jewesbury]

Hello.. Watching this conversation with interest from Northern Ireland. How funny would it be for us if Scotland voted 'yes'.. Erm, not very, actually...

One thing to point out - the enfranchisement of 16 and 17 year olds seems to be backfiring; polls show them expecting to vote 'no' by a large majority.

[Alan McDonald]

As I said, I was surprised to see the thread just because it is political. I will always be civil whenever I post on the forum. I have read a few other threads (wife announces "Dinner") and will comment on the odd one.