port buying opportunity? at local store

[Howard Marc Spector]

So, I happen to know a local wine shop that is closing its doors. It has a lot of port -- some of it is or has been temp. - controlled stored for some unknown period of time, some if it is still in OWC which have been sitting on the floor of the shop for 10 years, some is on racks. The store is air conditioned, but other than that, I can't really speak to conditions.

Here's a semi-complete list:

1970 dow
1977 smith woodhouse
1977 dow
1994 dow
1994 warre
1994 fonseca
1963 taylor
1977 taylor
1994 taylor
1991 churchhill
1994 churchhill
2000 taylor
1995 fonseca
2000 fonseca
1980 taylor
1983 taylor
2007 graham
2000 graham
1980 fonseca
1983 fonseca
1997 fonseca
1977 warre

There are probably 300-400 bottles of the above-listed wines. The owner is probably very motivated to sell in bulk, and is presumably aware of the fact that since storage is a complete mystery, he will not get anything close to retail on these. If any of you are interested in collaborating with me on a "liquidation" price bid in bulk (I am thinking of offering $20 or 30/bottle), please PM me, since this is far too much port for me to bid on by myself. I have a zillion shippers in the attic -- you would just have to cover the freight and the cost of the wine.

And, if you think that this is a terrible idea, I would welcome that advice too.

howard

[Eric Menchen]

e-mail sent via the board. And no, I don't think this is a terrible idea.

[Glenn E.]

I'd also be interested.

[Howard Marc Spector]

Glenn:

Give me some idea in how many total and which ones in particular.....

hm$

[Gary Banker]

Do you know if he has any madeira?

[Howard Marc Spector]

none.

[Glenn E.]

PM sent.

[Howard Marc Spector]

Guys:

Here's what I need from you, if you want to be involved.

1. A list of wines (from the above list) and a quantity (not for each wine, but in total) which you would be happy to receive if you paid $30/bottle.
2. A (presumably shorter) list of wines (from the above list) and a quantity (not for each wine, but in total) which you would be happy to receive if you paid $40/bottle.
3. ....if you paid $50/bottle.
4. etc.

Please don't send me emails saying you need precise quantities of what he has, and offering specific prices for specific wines. It will be like herding cats.
I will tabulate what you send and make an offer which I think makes the most people happy and is attractive to the owner to get lots of port off his floor.

hm$

[Eric Menchen]

Of course not all bottles are valued equal. I maintain a list of prices so when something comes up I can evaluate whether I want to buy it at that price. My prices are usually based on lowest retail prices found, with some credit given to auction prices, in particular when bottles at retail are rare. And if something only comes up really low at one retailer, I sometimes throw that out (depending on the retailer). Based on this, here's my notional prices for the bottles listed:

1970 dow - $100
1977 smith woodhouse - $115 (yikes, I've managed to do better. Maybe I should change that one, but it is rare at retail.)
1977 dow - $95
1994 dow - $65
1994 warre - $55
1994 fonseca - $145
1963 taylor - $180+ (probably rare at $180, or UK only)
1977 taylor - $140
1994 taylor - $130 (probably should update this one up)
1991 churchhill - $35
1994 churchhill - $40
2000 taylor - $70
1995 fonseca - $35, presuming this is the Guimaraens
2000 fonseca - $65
1980 taylor - $95
1983 taylor - $80
2007 graham - $61 (should probably update this one up. I bought soem for $70)
2000 graham - $80
1980 fonseca - Avoid in my notes, so I haven't priced
1983 fonseca - $80
1997 fonseca - $60
1977 warre - $85

Now what does one do with this? I'd suggest that the bottles should be sold at a relative value. In a perfect world we could get a complete inventory, and compute a complete retail price. Then there is the price paid, which will give a discount factor. Based on that, all the bottles could be computed at the discount, and hopefully everyone would claim all the bottles. But the world isn't perfect, and I'd never want to that 1980 Fonseca at any price, and the 1983 Taylor would have to get more of a discount for my interest. So maybe hm$ sells at something not quite the full discount rate for bottles that people are interested in at first, and a greater discount for those that no one wants. Just my thoughts.

[Howard Marc Spector]

First, I am passing on all bottles at whatever the cost is. Second, the reason I asked for different thresholds is that it's unlikely he will sell the '63 Taylor for $30, but he might at $50 (or $60, or $70). Third, there are widely divergent quantities: I think he has 3 or 4 of the '63 Taylors and 11 cases of the '00 Fonseca.


hm$

[Eric Menchen]

First, I am passing on all bottles at whatever the cost is. Second, the reason I asked for different thresholds is that it's unlikely he will sell the '63 Taylor for $30, but he might at $50 (or $60, or $70). Third, there are widely divergent quantities: I think he has 3 or 4 of the '63 Taylors and 11 cases of the '00 Fonseca.

I appreciate that at the buying end. But I wouldn't want you to have to suck up the poor stuff because no one wants it at cost.

[Howard Marc Spector]

If I can take 100 or 150 bottles off his hands, that may be good enough. The advantage to me is that I think I will have his attention with 3-4K

hm$

[Eric Menchen]

Ahhh, o.k. I thought you were going all in for the entire inventory.

[Luke W]

Being quite new to the world of Port and looking to try as many vintages and different brands as I can, I would be very interested in grabbing a bottle of each if you could get the cost down where you are thinking. I would grab a few more if a certain number must be purchased to make this a go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Stewart T.]

That's an impressive list of Ports, but even at attractive prices, I just try not to buy any wines if i don't know how they have been stored. I've gotten burned before on one of these liquidation deals, and I'd rather just spend my hard-earned cash on bottles with some provenance.

I don't want to be that guy at the kick-ass tasting who pops open a cooked wine. And my lovely wife already gives me grief about spending money on wine we CAN drink. I don't want to have to tell her I spent money on wine i CAN'T drink. LOL

[Gary Richardson]

PM sent.

-- Gary

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Howard,

While I have seen you a couple of times on Wine Berserkers and even less here; I am always concerned when someone who is not a regular poster on our FTLOP forums post offers for our members.

We have had others come here with questionable "deals" and although it doesn't seem like that is the case here, I want to ensure that our members are not being put at risk. I would appreciate if you would provide some additional disclosure for our members.

As you are a lawyer that deals in bankruptcies and liquidations and helps small businesses on both sides of the equation, can you let us know:

a. are you acting as a broker in this deal for a client?

b. do you have personal and/or fiduciary ties to this wine seller and their bankruptcy in re: to assisting them in the liquidation of their inventory of Port?

c. do you have any knowledge of this inventory of Port having been salvaged from distress sales like "Katrina" wine stocks or similar poor provenance situations?


My sincere thanks and I look forward to your response here, as transparency is important.

I would suggest to FTLOP'ers to WAIT until these questions are answered, before proceeding any further!

Respectfully,

Roy

[Howard Marc Spector]

Roy:

While I am a a lawyer that deals in bankruptcies and liquidations and helps small businesses on both sides of the equation, but:

a. I am not a broker in this deal for anyone.
b. I don't have any personal, business or fiduciary ties to this wine seller whatsoever.
c. As far as I know, they have not filed (nor do I have any reason to suspect that they intend to file) for bankruptcy. And
d. I have no knowledge of this inventory of Port having been salvaged from distress sales like "Katrina" wine stocks or similar poor provenance situations.

My only relationship to the shop is as an infrequent customer, and potential buyer of some of the wines. And, I have disclosed in my first post everything I know about the long term storage -- which is very little (i.e. that they have a cooler, and I don't know how many of the wines were in it or for how long). I have now viewed the wines personally (today) and nothing struck me as problematic (stained lables, signs of seepage) but I don't hold myself out as having any particular expertise in that area.

In short, if the wines are bad, I will be among those who get stung.
Any other questions, feel free to ask.

hm$

[Howard Marc Spector]

PS: I also tasted the '00 Fonseca today that was sitting with its 131 friends on the floor and it seemed fine.
PPS: The '00 Fonseca tasted may or may not be representative of the other wines he has.
PPPS: My palate might not be as good as others on this board.


hm$

[Roy Hersh]

Howard,

Thank you for your candor. My main responsibility is to protect the interests of our Forumites. So, I appreciate you being forthright and responding as you have. Carry on!