Do you drink much Ruby, Ruby Reserve or Basic Tawny?

[John M.]

We all post and discuss the nicer ports, but do you drink any of the more basic ports?

I find a local B&M shop often has Cockburn's Reserve for only $13.99 + tax---its great to pick up the odd bottle and another has Fonseca Bin 27 for $14.99 plus tax. These are great for casual drinking and they also seem to hold up for a couple of weeks in the refrigerator.

I almost never buy a basic ruby port anymore---for a couple dollars more the jump to Ruby Reserve is noticeable and worth it. Think I've only purchased a couple basic tawnies ever.

[Andy Velebil]

Great question. While I don't drink much basic Ruby's and Tawny's, I do drink the Reserves fairly often. I enjoy Cockburn's Special Reserve (since the Symington's took over that is), Fonseca Bin 27, Noval Black, Graham's Six Grapes, and Sandeman's Founder's Reserve. I wouldn't mind getting others, but those are the ones I can easily find near me and at good prices.

[Eric Menchen]

Ruby, no. If I could get the straight Noval I might, but I can't recall seeing that anywhere around here. Reserve, yes--Six Grapes, Noval Black, Broadbent Auction Reserve ... Tawny, no. I've enjoyed most of the basic tawnies I've had, but I don't drink tawny as much, and I've managed to pick up plenty of wonderful colheitas at reasonable prices in the FTLOP purchase opportunities.

[Paul Fountain]

Very little.
I like tawny when it has acquired a bit of nuttiness and that seems to be closer to 20 years so the basic tawny doesn't hold much appeal.
For the Rubies, there isn't that much range available and they can be expensive for what they are. The major liquor barn in the area does stock Cockburn's Special reserve which isn't too bad by AU standards at about AU $24, but I can't justify buying 6 Grapes (as much as I like it) at close to AU $50.
Since the cheapest port I can buy in my area is the Taylors LBV at about AU $16 so that tends to be what I open regularly (Taylors LBV and Vargellas are the sole reason I have a costco membership).

[John F. Newman]

As I can pick up a 2007 or 2008 LBV for $17 or so, I just don't buy the basic rubies. Occasionally I buy a ruby reserve. As to tawnies, I don't remember the last time I drank a tawny without an indication of age or colheita.

Even for cooking, I don't buy the basics since you don't put an entire bottle into any dish and I wind of drinking the remainder.

[Glenn E.]

I used to use Ruby Reserves as cellar defenders, but as my cellar continued to grow I realized that I really didn't need to defend it.

So these days I only drink Ruby, Ruby Reserve, Tawny, or Tawny Reserve for a specific purpose like a taste test. At least out here in Washington you can get an LBV for around the same price as a Ruby Reserve, so it seems like there's not much point in the Reserve level.

[John M.]

Agree with Glenn....often I can get LBV for the same if not less than Six Grapes or Noval Black so I tend to LBVs. But when I can get a Reserve for under $15 I am inclined--especially if I know I will not drink it all in the coming 2-3 days--to have it.

BTW--I never see Six Grapes or Black on sale (with prices usually $18 and up)--usually Cockburn's or Fonseca Bin 27 can be found for $16 or less, once in a while Taylor's (which was the overall winner of the taste test in March 2012). But really, I can find Dows LBV for $17, Taylor LBV under $20 and Crasto LBV for $17 so to me its a no-brainer (BTW, I scored eight 2006 Crasto LBVs for $12 each last year in a close out).

[Daniel R.]

In Portugal you can buy plenty of LBVs for 10 to 12 Euros so I never bother to buy Ruby or Ruby Reserve. I don't think I have ever bought a basic tawny..

[Alan McDonald]

In Portugal you can buy plenty of LBVs for 10 to 12 Euros so I never bother to buy Ruby or Ruby Reserve. I don't think I have ever bought a basic tawny..

You can also buy Ruby at half that price. The important thing is "Why do you buy Port?" Or any food or beverage?

Wine, including fortifieds, is a complement to the food I consume. I thoroughly enjoy them, and have wine, plus at least two, and usually three, fortifieds with dinner every night. I have wine with lunch about 4 to 6 times a week, rarely a fortified in addition. So, all the wines I buy have to be value for money, and quite frankly I cannot see myself buying Port at the sort of prices some of you pay because I would never receive that amount of enjoyment from them. They are most definitely not an end in themselves and I simply am not prepared, nor can afford, to have my meals cost that much.

My wife and I between us consume 3 to 4 bottles of Ruby a week, 1 to 2 each of White and Moscatel (not Port I know) and the amounts of each may vary from week to week, but I have near to the dining table roughly a week's supply on a permanent basis. The cellar involves a 50 yards walk. I would drink Tawny instead if Moscatel was not available, although I am not particularly fond of Tawny of any quality and rarely buy it. Ruby Reserves are sometimes bought if they are on "special" but generally Ruby is the everyday Port of choice.

[Glenn E.]

I cannot see myself buying Port at the sort of prices some of you pay because I would never receive that amount of enjoyment from them.

Conversely, I cannot imagine drinking 10 bottles of fortifieds - plus dry wines! - in one week for anything other than something like one of Roy's Port tours. I simply can't handle that much alcohol. For me, the Port is the desired experience, so I prefer to drink something really nice to make the most of it.

So, essentially, I save up what you're spending over the course of 2 weeks and buy a single bottle with it. I'm probably spending more overall because I'm paying US prices and you're paying Portuguese prices, but the idea's the same.

[Daniel R.]

Same as Glenn, I am probably not paying more in total simply because I purchase less bottles of Port. I drink between 50 and 70 whole bottles of Port per year (this does not include tastingos or other occasions where I will only drink a glass)

[Andy Velebil]

I too am in a similar position as Glenn. Due to work and cycling I don't drink everyday. Maybe a couple times per week is a more realistic number for me (excluding big tastings or trips). So I tend to buy more expensive bottles as I'm not opening them as often. If I did consume wine daily then I would be buying far less expensive bottles as Alan does.

[John M.]

Alan seems to be in a place where the pricing is different than for us in the USA and I also see the merits of once in a while versus frequent consumption. Always seemed odd to me that LBV is priced about the same as Ruby Reserves. As I build up my cellar it is mostly VP with some age-worthy LBVs. Anything else does not last long....still I enjoy the Reserves but the LBVs are usually a higher class.

[Alan McDonald]

I cannot see myself buying Port at the sort of prices some of you pay because I would never receive that amount of enjoyment from them.

Conversely, I cannot imagine drinking 10 bottles of fortifieds - plus dry wines! - in one week for anything other than something like one of Roy's Port tours. I simply can't handle that much alcohol. For me, the Port is the desired experience, so I prefer to drink something really nice to make the most of it.

So, essentially, I save up what you're spending over the course of 2 weeks and buy a single bottle with it. I'm probably spending more overall because I'm paying US prices and you're paying Portuguese prices, but the idea's the same.

Glenn, I do not drink 10 bottles of fortifieds a week. If I did I doubt that I would be seeing straight. If you read my post again you will see that I use somewhere between 5 and 8 bottles a week for two of us. Without keeping records, I would say normally 6 or 7. That is only half a bottle a night each. My wife drinks very little table wine, but consumes her fair share of the fortifieds (more than her share of the Ruby and not so much of the others) so my consumption is not so large as you imply.

I do note that many of you post as if you are the only consumer in the household. Is that correct, or just the way we all tend to write about bottles opened? I also note that there are few posts referring to the food enjoyed with any wine. Do many of you simply drink Port on its own? Just as a drink, not as an accompaniment to food? Do you eat proper dinners every day? Ever? I cannot imagine life without good food, and ideally suitable wines too, at least once a day. If it was a choice between good food or any wine, food wins.

You say you prefer to drink something really nice. So do I. i can buy what I consider really nice Ruby Ports at €4 to €6 a bottle. I obtain a lot of pleasure from pairing them with different cheeses. Whites with savouries (now mostly too sweet as I mention on another thread) and Moscatel do Setúbals with nuts. Both also around the same price. It costs about €20 each per week to enjoy the wines of our choice with each different course we eat at every meal.

So, if you buy one bottle of Port in two weeks at our (roughly) €70 for fortifieds and €20 for table wines, what do you drink with your meals for the rest of the fortnigh?

[Glenn E.]

So, if you buy one bottle of Port in two weeks at our (roughly) €70 for fortifieds and €20 for table wines, what do you drink with your meals for the rest of the fortnigh?

I've never been much of a drinker. Beer and dry wine have never appealed to me, despite significant peer pressure in high school and college. Port is really the first alcoholic drink that I've enjoyed other than an occasional cocktail that typically comes with an umbrella in it. I typically drink milk, Coke, or sweet tea with meals. If I'm feeling the need to be a little more healthy for some reason, I'll drink water instead.

My wife drinks dry wine, but not much Port. So when I open a bottle at home I will probably be the only person to drink any of it. If it's a nice tawny that I think my wife will like, I'll pour her a glass. But she generally doesn't pour a glass for herself unless she recognizes what I've opened and remembers liking it. So for the most part, I drink a glass of Port per night for about a week, then don't drink any for about a week, then start the process again. If the bottle I have open is a tawny then I likely drink it on its own after dinner. If it's a ruby then there's a good chance that I'll drink it with dinner instead of after. I enjoy both types with nuts and/or cheeses, too.

I think my taste is simply a little more expensive than yours. I haven't found any ruby reserves that I like well enough to buy them as a nightly drinker. That's not to say that I don't like them - I've found a few that I'll rate into the low 90s - just that I'd rather go ahead and spend ~10% more to drink an LBV. Or even better, a nice Vintage Port. When I'm drinking tawnies, I almost never drink less than a 20-yr old. I prefer Colheitas from the '60s and '70s, but they're too expensive to drink regularly. (Even using my definition of regularly as opposed to yours. ) Similarly, while I prefer 30- and 40-yr old tawnies over 20-yr olds, the increased cost generally means those are for special occasions for me.

Generally speaking, a Ruby Reserve around here costs $18-$20. An LBV costs $20-$24. A 20-yr old Tawny costs $40-$50. These €4 to €6 ruby Ports that you talk about simply don't exist in Seattle.

[Paul Fountain]

I do note that many of you post as if you are the only consumer in the household. Is that correct, or just the way we all tend to write about bottles opened? I also note that there are few posts referring to the food enjoyed with any wine. Do many of you simply drink Port on its own? Just as a drink, not as an accompaniment to food? Do you eat proper dinners every day? Ever? I cannot imagine life without good food, and ideally suitable wines too, at least once a day. If it was a choice between good food or any wine, food wins.

Given that I live by myself, unless I have people around, I am the only consumer in my household. I rarely drink port with food as often I will have a port at the end of a meal in place of dessert.
I also try to have 3 or 4 alcohol free days per week and I probably average 1-2 bottles of wine per week, a few beers and a bottle of fortified every couple of weeks.
I do drink wine with food, but as the majority of my wine is Australian, you won't hear about it here. I also regularly drink beer with food - I often cook with a range spices and sometimes a quality beer is by far a better match than wine.
What is your definition of a proper dinner? If it 3 courses with entree, main and dessert then the answer is almost never, If it is meat and 3 veg, then occasionally, and if it is a home cooked meal then the answer is almost always.

Generally speaking, a Ruby Reserve around here costs $18-$20. An LBV costs $20-$24. A 20-yr old Tawny costs $40-$50. These €4 to €6 ruby Ports that you talk about simply don't exist in Seattle.

Yep, those €4 to €6 ports are probably AU$25 - 35 in Melbourne, if they are available at all, so it is a no brainer if I can get the Taylors LBV at AU $16. It's a market anomaly for sure, but that is what I'll be drinking most of while it is available at that price. If it wasn't available, I'd probably drink more Cockburns special reserve more regularly

[Alan McDonald]

Paul, I had a 3000 acre sheep and cattle property in northern NSW, so I think that the regional normal single main course and some "afters" of any description is more than good enough to be considered a proper meal. It is extremely rare for us to have a starter, rarely a dessert, but always a good main course of meat and a few veg (following several different styles from around the world) then always cheeses and nuts, often with a small savoury course after the main.

I began serious wine drinking when I moved to Australia in 1979 - it was almost free compared with the UK at the time. I remember buying 4 litre casks of Coolabah for $2. Wolf Blass was an independent maker at the time and I thoroughly enjoyed most of what he made. I was not so keen after he sold out - 1989 or 1990? I also liked most of the S.A. reds, but not Australian "Port", they always seemed to taste of liquorice. I agree with you too that when it is as hot as it gets at times there, then it takes a fair amount of beer (I preferred XXXX) to accomapny almost any meal.

There are a small number of Australian wines available here, Penfold's mainly and Jacob's Creek, including their "Champagne" which, at €10, wacks the socks off its competitiors.

[Brad Bogdan]

Man, my takeaway here is you guys need to eat more dessert! :-P

I am in the same boat as some others, as I don't tend to drink port with a meal, but with nibbles (usually not sweet ones) after as I enjoy some tv or Internet in the evening. I do drink wine the majority of nights, but with meals it's table wines rather than fortified. As such, I only consume 3-4 bottles of fortified most months (more if there's a few guests) and LBVs and the occasional tawny are cheap enough that it doesn't make sense to trade down for me.


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[Andy Velebil]

So which basic Ports (Ruby, Ruby Reserves, etc) do people tend to avoid, for whatever reason?

[John M.]

I avoid the basics generally...QPR thing.

Ruby Reserves: Tend to buy Cockburns, Taylor, Black, Bin 27.....I've come not to like Six Grapes so much and Warres Warrior is ok