For The Love Of Port

Here are the photos.

If the staining came from decanting/pouring then no worries. If not, and it was there when you removed the capsule, I'd say either heat damaged or a poor cork that leaked at some point.

Andy Velebil wrote:If the staining came from decanting/pouring then no worries. If not, and it was there when you removed the capsule, I'd say either heat damaged or a poor cork that leaked at some point.

It didn't. It looked like that after I removed the outer wrapping encapsulating the top of the bottle. The cork came out in 2 pieces. It broke roughly 2/3 down. A leak wouldn't cause the wine to become dull?

First I though I just didn't "get" this Graham's. It seemed so dull and uninteresting nothing like the Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse and Dow's I previously have had from 85'. The G.N sales rep ensured me that they had been stored under proper conditions. Hope that the RP and Ferriera I bought shows better.

What concerns me is the signs of old seepage on the lower part of the Selo (middle pic). That is indicative of a cork that has leaked at some point. Typically, the two options mentioned will cause that.

A bad cork can cause oxidation which will cause all sorts of issues. Including dulling of the port.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You should be pretty wow'd by '85 Grahams and it's a consistent port as are most Grahams bottlings. I can't think of a vintage from them that is known for cork variation.

How was the clarity of this port?

Moses Botbol wrote:You should be pretty wow'd by '85 Grahams and it's a consistent port as are most Grahams bottlings. I can't think of a vintage from them that is known for cork variation.

How was the clarity of this port?

It was my first Graham's vintage, but I am familiar with the taste of a 85' vintage as mentioned above and had some very nice moments. This however was nothing like that, and I must say very bland.

From the picture above I think we must conclude that there had been seepage.

The clarity was fair. I could clearly see my hand through the decanter/glass when hoovering it behind the liquid. Why do you ask?

Thomas V wrote:
The clarity was fair. I could clearly see my hand through the decanter/glass when hoovering it behind the liquid. Why do you ask?

Oxidation, ullage, and heat can screw with the clarity. Generally, cloudy/murky ports are off for one thing or another. VA is common.

A predicament.

Been spending quite a lot of money recently on buying port.

Now I stumbled on a Danish vendor that actually has a few bottles left of 2011 Quevedo vintage port. It isn't cheaply priced or anything, but I have had a hard time finding this port elsewhere.

When I spoke to Oscar 2 times in the early spring he said that must suppliers had sold out and that he does not have anything left in his cellars except a few magnums for special occasions.

Roy rated this very very well as did Andy and Al. I am in an OK financial state to buy them, the question is if I should.

My 2011 vintage inventory looks like this:

1x Talyor's
3x Ferriera
2x Portal
6x Offley Boa Vista
1x Quinta do Noval

Thomas V wrote:A predicament.

Been spending quite a lot of money recently on buying port.

Now I stumbled on a Danish vendor that actually has a few bottles left of 2011 Quevedo vintage port. It isn't cheaply priced or anything, but I have had a hard time finding this port elsewhere.

When I spoke to Oscar 2 times in the early spring he said that must suppliers had sold out and that he does not have anything left in his cellars except a few magnums for special occasions.

Roy rated this very very well as did Andy and Al. I am in an OK financial state to buy them, the question is if I should.

My 2011 vintage inventory looks like this:

1x Talyor's
3x Ferriera
2x Portal
6x Offley Boa Vista
1x Quinta do Noval

If doing so won't cause other issues, go for it. A wonderful VP.

Andy Velebil wrote: If doing so won't cause other issues, go for it. A wonderful VP.

The hard thing about starting up your port and / or wine cellar/collection is also to calm yourself down once in a while as you can't buy everything you want/need right away. I guess I will have to remind myself to be a bit patient with purchasing and expanding my collection. I also have to spend/save up for other things even though port has a very good return interest-rate.

When you anticipate a vintage year like 2015 probably will be, do you save up to be able to buy 1-2 cases en primeur from each of your favourite houses?

Thomas V wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: If doing so won't cause other issues, go for it. A wonderful VP.

The hard thing about starting up your port and / or wine cellar/collection is also to calm yourself down once in a while as you can't buy everything you want/need right away. I guess I will have to remind myself to be a bit patient with purchasing and expanding my collection. I also have to spend/save up for other things even though port has a very good return interest-rate.

When you anticipate a vintage year like 2015 probably will be, do you save up to be able to buy 1-2 cases en primeur from each of your favourite houses?

Very true. I leave a little money set aside for those unplanned purchases. Not everyday stuff, but when something like an buying Op come along or when you find some old gems at a good price.

Thomas V wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: If doing so won't cause other issues, go for it. A wonderful VP.

The hard thing about starting up your port and / or wine cellar/collection is also to calm yourself down once in a while as you can't buy everything you want/need right away. I guess I will have to remind myself to be a bit patient with purchasing and expanding my collection. I also have to spend/save up for other things even though port has a very good return interest-rate.

When you anticipate a vintage year like 2015 probably will be, do you save up to be able to buy 1-2 cases en primeur from each of your favourite houses?

My advice is take your time to find the deals unless you have deep pockets. The vintages you are going for are around all the time. Deals can come and go quick, so you need be ready to make a move $$$ when it happens. The FTLOP subscriber offers have been great if you can take advantage. Wholesaler, auctions, private collectors, stopping at every liquor store... Deals are out there. I would only put a 10-15% of the budget towards current or future vintages. Waiting for a vintage to be good in 30+ years is quite a delayed investment.

Thomas V wrote:I also have to spend/save up for other things even though port has a very good return interest-rate.

I'm not buying any Port for the return on investment. I might be able to make a few dollars here or there, but I think my other investments are doing better than wine collection. And while you might be able to sell to someone personally, most sales are going to be at auction, where purchasers expect to pay less than retail, and the auction house is going to take a pretty big cut. My Port purchases are investments for my own pleasure--I plan to drink them, and when I do the provenance will be known and the price probably lower than retail at that time.

When you anticipate a vintage year like 2015 probably will be, do you save up to be able to buy 1-2 cases en primeur from each of your favourite houses?

I did this for 2007 a bit and a fair amount for 2011, but I didn't buy full cases, but 6-packs as a lot of Port comes six to the OWC. The only things I've bought more than 6 of were past labels and vintages that I know to be good, and in particular when the price was right.

Eric Menchen wrote:

Thomas V wrote:I also have to spend/save up for other things even though port has a very good return interest-rate.

I'm not buying any Port for the return on investment. I might be able to make a few dollars here or there, but I think my other investments are doing better than wine collection. And while you might be able to sell to someone personally, most sales are going to be at auction, where purchasers expect to pay less than retail, and the auction house is going to take a pretty big cut. My Port purchases are investments for my own pleasure--I plan to drink them, and when I do the provenance will be known and the price probably lower than retail at that time.

When you anticipate a vintage year like 2015 probably will be, do you save up to be able to buy 1-2 cases en primeur from each of your favourite houses?

I did this for 2007 a bit and a fair amount for 2011, but I didn't buy full cases, but 6-packs as a lot of Port comes six to the OWC. The only things I've bought more than 6 of were past labels and vintages that I know to be good, and in particular when the price was right.

I don't buy port from an investment point of view, but I don't ignore the fact that they could increase in value and I might later on trade/sell some of the bottles I have purchased. Especially if I buy some cases en primeur in coming years.

Yes I think about buying 6 case OWC as well, not 12 bottles ones, unless I really want that quantity of that house and the price is right.

I decided to buy 2 of the Quevedo 2011 vintage today as there were only 3 left at the vendor, who kept pronouncing it [vin-taagje].

Now my eyes will focus on 03' and 94' and perhaps a few from the eighties if I spot a good deal.

My wish list looks a bit like this:

2003 Fonseca
2003 Graham's
2003 Vesuvio

2000 Ferreira
2000 Fonseca

1994 Croft
1994 Graham's
1994 Warre's
1994 Vesuvio

Anywhere you can see an overview of which houses declared in 1994 for example?

I think you'd be harder pushed to find a house which didn't declare in 1994 (were there any?)

Phil W wrote:I think you'd be harder pushed to find a house which didn't declare in 1994 (were there any?)

I've heard it said that if you couldn't make a good Vintage Port in 1994 then you're in the wrong business.

I think you'd be harder pushed to find a house which didn't declare in 1994

There is probably an exception to prove the rule, but aside from that, '94 was a turkey shoot for the producers.

That said, whilst vintage quality was abundant in '94, I sense that real class may be a bit more elusive. However, we'll see - we won't really know until they hit 40 in 2034..

Tom Archer wrote:

I think you'd be harder pushed to find a house which didn't declare in 1994

There is probably an exception to prove the rule, but aside from that, '94 was a turkey shoot for the producers.

That said, whilst vintage quality was abundant in '94, I sense that real class may be a bit more elusive. However, we'll see - we won't really know until they hit 40 in 2034..

At a previous FTLOP gathering where we did a large number of 1994's to check on them, there were two distinctive camps. Those that were still showing very youthful and those that were maturing much faster. No surprise, as at just over 20 years old now some of the faster maturing ones are just starting to enter their prime drinking windows.

...and who did not declare 1994?

Andy Velebil wrote:

Tom Archer wrote:

I think you'd be harder pushed to find a house which didn't declare in 1994

There is probably an exception to prove the rule, but aside from that, '94 was a turkey shoot for the producers.

That said, whilst vintage quality was abundant in '94, I sense that real class may be a bit more elusive. However, we'll see - we won't really know until they hit 40 in 2034..

At a previous FTLOP gathering where we did a large number of 1994's to check on them, there were two distinctive camps. Those that were still showing very youthful and those that were maturing much faster. No surprise, as at just over 20 years old now some of the faster maturing ones are just starting to enter their prime drinking windows.

...and who did not declare 1994?

You forget the small group that clearly created underwhelming or flawed products (Passadouro and Broadbent come to mind)