For The Love Of Port

What about an update to this thread? Whose cellar is now critical?

Daniel Jewesbury wrote:What about an update to this thread? Whose cellar is now critical?

Uh, guess that would be me still. Though I've cut back buying and am trying to start to make a dent. But those special deals on older wines keep cropping up and it's soooo hard to say no.

Running out of cellar space? Forget that, it's more like running out of money.

Mahmoud.

Cellar has a few empty spots, but I have a lot of drinking too do before spring shipping if I want to keep that way.

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yep, I'm in this camp too, though I'm not complaining

Glenn E. wrote:I wish I were only running out of cellar space - that would imply that I still had some space left!

I ran out months ago. Costco has ArteVino by Eurocave on sale this month, though, so I've been examining the den to see if I can cram another full-size wine fridge in there.

The only thing that has changed for me is that there's a (completely full) ArteVino by Eurocave in my cellar next to the original Eurocave and generic fridge that I already had.

Oh, I guess one other change... now there are 3-4 cases just sitting on the floor in that room. It used to be 1-2.

At a guess I think it would take more than the quinta is worth to fill the cellar. And as you all know wine here is very cheap.

I'm doing OK. By packing my wine fridge better and by using the same size and shape box for all my other bottles I've been able to get more bottles into the same space with the result that my offsite storage needs have gone down by about 3 cases.

I'm also doing OK with my 2015 New Year Port resolution - I am down 6 bottles so far this year on where I was when the year started!

I did run out of space but lucky for me my brother is in the business of building custom wine cellars and he built me a cellar space in an unused office at my business....somehow about 1000 of his bottles ended up in there too.

If anybody in NY/NJ/CT needs a wine cellar: http://custom-wine-cellars.com/

Matt K wrote:I did run out of space but lucky for me my brother is in the business of building custom wine cellars and he built me a cellar space in an unused office at my business....somehow about 1000 of his bottles ended up in there too.

If anybody in NY/NJ/CT needs a wine cellar: http://custom-wine-cellars.com/

Is that your wine cellar? That is fancy!!

I am in the need to build a wine cellar, nothing crazy... about 1500 bottles. Want it more utility than show. What kind budget should I allow? Will be in a real cellar.

While I have some horizontal storage, I'm completely out of upright storage for Madeira. I'm placing my more recent bottlings horizontal, trusting the better corks in use these days.

Matt K wrote:If anybody in NY/NJ/CT needs a wine cellar: http://custom-wine-cellars.com/

I don't need a cellar, but right now I have a through wall chiller that I've hooked up to a controller to go down to 44 F for beer. I was wondering if a split system could be used for this. Perhaps I'll contact him ...

Moses - That's not my cellar. Unfortunately I don't have that much space at home to dedicate to a cellar. My cellar is a very utilitarian space built out in a spare office in my companies offices and I have racking for a 3-400 bottles at home and plans to build a real cellar in a few years when we undertake a substantial renovation project.
I asked my brother for some rough numbers; obviously costs can vary quite widely depending upon the state of the space (ie. 18th c. colonial or modern construction). He also said they'd travel to Boston for a job; they've even gone out west for clients.

• Racking: Professionally installed custom redwood is typically $7-15 bottle allowing for some display areas, countertop, etc. So, 1500 bottles, just racking starts at ~10K in clear redwood to 15K in all heart redwood and from there the sky is the limit..walnut, mahogany, lacquer - anything is possible.
• Cooling: S Self-Contained (through wall) starts at ~$3000+ and a good ductless system ~$4500+; installation cost can vary greatly. There's many options - including ducted, self-contained, etc.
• Room construction, insulation, vapor barrier, flooring, etc, all would need to be added as well. Figure $12K to frame/insulate/lighting/flooring, etc..
  So, a 'typical' (custom clear redwood, ductless split) 1500 bottle cellar is ~30K all in with building and finishing a room/doing necessary electrical work, etc.

Eric I: I have a similar problem which I'm currently solving with stacks of cardboard shippers. Not elegant and I can't see what's where so I really do need to improve on that but I'm running out of horizontal space as well so I'm at the point where we might have to redo the room with more double depth racking to increase my capacity.

Eric M.: Yes, a split system, both ducted and ductless is the preferred solution (over a through wall). I believe their go-to solution is a ductless split system - that's what is used in my storage cellar. They even have a page describing the available options on the website: http://custom-wine-cellars.com/cooling.php

Matt K wrote:So, a 'typical' (custom clear redwood, ductless split) 1500 bottle cellar is ~30K all in with building and finishing a room/doing necessary electrical work, etc.

My cost for a 1000 bottle cellar with dual-zone control:

• Chilling unit, through wall: $300
• Racking for 800-1000 bottles: $300
• Racking for 1/2 bottles: $425
• Shelves for OWCs and beer: ~$100
• Custom chiller controller: ~$125
• Framing, insulation, lighting, etc: ~$3000-5000

I purchased the chilling unit and primary racking for $600 together, used on craiglist.

The chiller has about twice the capacity as the space requires, but I'm also using it to chill my beer down to 44F in a section of the cellar. I had to do a lot of work to make the racking fit, but it fits exactly. I had the 1/2 bottle racking made custom, so that was more than all the full bottle racking. I'm not real sure about the framing, etc. costs as it was done as part of our overall basement finish. I'm guessing based on square footage, and the fact the cellar has a little more custom work than some of the other rooms, but less than the bathroom.

I still don't have a good picture of the cellar as a whole--not an easy picture to take actually without a wide-angle lens.

Not exactly a fair comparison. :)

Eric Menchen wrote:

Matt K wrote:So, a 'typical' (custom clear redwood, ductless split) 1500 bottle cellar is ~30K all in with building and finishing a room/doing necessary electrical work, etc.

My cost for a 1000 bottle cellar with dual-zone control:

• Chilling unit, through wall: $300
• Racking for 800-1000 bottles: $300
• Racking for 1/2 bottles: $425
• Shelves for OWCs and beer: ~$100
• Custom chiller controller: ~$125
• Framing, insulation, lighting, etc: ~$3000-5000

I purchased the chilling unit and primary racking for $600 together, used on craiglist.

The chiller has about twice the capacity as the space requires, but I'm also using it to chill my beer down to 44F in a section of the cellar. I had to do a lot of work to make the racking fit, but it fits exactly. I had the 1/2 bottle racking made custom, so that was more than all the full bottle racking. I'm not real sure about the framing, etc. costs as it was done as part of our overall basement finish. I'm guessing based on square footage, and the fact the cellar has a little more custom work than some of the other rooms, but less than the bathroom.

I still don't have a good picture of the cellar as a whole--not an easy picture to take actually without a wide-angle lens.

Eric, your cellar is more of what I have in mind. I am looking for utility, not $7+ a bottle to store it. I have a free cellar as it is they've been in for a long time.

If I added up Eric's numbers correctly he spent ~6K for 1000 bottles buying used racking/refrigeration, and I think he bought very well, that's still ~$7 bottle.

The Cellar Trellis product that Eric bought used is ~5-7 bottle/delivered (I just googled it).

Start checking craiglist. :)

Matt K wrote:Not exactly a fair comparison. :)

I wasn't going to suggest that it was an apples to apples comparison. I did want to suggest, however, that oranges might be a viable option for less. My option took a lot of time and effort. I probably watched craigslist for about a year to get that racking, and even looked at at least one other cellar that was up for sale. And after I purchased that stuff, it sat in my garage for a year too. The chilling units come up fairly often on Denver craigslist. The racking is a little less common, and when it does come up, it might not be configured quite right. With that metal racking, I found slightly more than I needed, which allowed me to cut it and weave the metal to get racks just the size I needed. My main racking is actually Bordex, from Australia. It is sold in the US under a few different names, but is slightly different from Cellar Trellis, which is made and sold by Vinotemp, and probably also available through other sources. My half-bottle custom rack is Cellar Trellis. If you aren't looking for them, you probably wouldn't notice the differences, but there are a few. And I stained all my Cellar Trellis pieces to match the wood color of the Bordex. I like both of these racking options for their space efficiency, and I have the plastic guards on the metal to prevent it from scraping the bottles.

Bordex on the left for Port, Bordex on the right for all other wine, and Cellar Trellis ahead for half racking. Behind me in this photo is the section for cold beer and white wine. As you can see, I do actually have some space for half bottles, to return this thread to the original topic.

Nice work Eric!

My cellar at the office is very utilitarian, the racking is largely made from leftovers/castoff racking that my brother collected over the years, but one thing he insisted on was proper insulation & vapor barrier for the room. I've built a few cellars with him (13+ years ago, he's been doing this for 20+) and I remember how important the prep is. IIRC my cellar has 2" foam with caulked seams, and the cellar at my old house we built with a plastic vapor barrier on walls/ceiling and heavy fiberglass insulation. How did you have your space prepared?

I just was clicking around a bit and, short of the used route that you took, it looks like racking starts at about $2.50/bottle and a properly sized (guess) cooling unit seems to be $2500. That's $6250 before you insulate/vapor barrier, etc. If you're handy (enough to frame a room, hang door & sheet rock, etc) and have the time it looks like it's possible to DIY a cellar for $9-10K all in allowing a few thousand for the room construction...call it $6-7 bottle.

With the cooler evaporating and the air out there already so dry do you have to do anything in Colorado to maintain proper humidity?