The difference between Quinta Do Noval and the Nacional?

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:09 pm

Derek,
How do you see the original question?
Do you lean towards Alex's explanation regarding the ungrafted grapes, plus extra attention, or,
Tom's thoughts that the grafting is a probable red herring, and its just a remarkably high standard of production?
I understand if you get Kreosote all over your trousers...and sit on the fence!
Alan.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:17 pm

Alan,

I have to say I agree with Alex. To the naked eye there is no difference between the Nacional vines and the rest of Quinta do Noval. Yes, Tom has a point about them getting a bit more personal attention during the year but if that is all it took then anyone could make an equivalent wine provided they had enough hands and the right knowledge and skills.

The basic fact is that the Nacional wines are head and shoulders above their little brothers in almost every vintage when both have been declared. There have been one or 2 exceptions to this where the wines score within 1 or 2 points of each other but the gap is normally significant. If all this was about was TLC then why would Noval not show the same level of TLC to the entire Quinta and end up with 100 times more wine of the Nacional standard each year?

Whether or not all or most of the difference is attributable to the roots I cannot say but from the outside it appears to be the only significant difference between the production method of the 2 wines.

Derek

PS: No creosote required

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:33 pm

That'll do for me. Safety in numbers, I'll align myself with you and Alex and when given the opportunity, explain 'our' theory, as though I knew all along. :)
By the way, has anyone tried Chicken Tarka???
Its a bit like Chicken Tikka...but a little 'otter!!!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:38 pm

Alan,

You've been drinking again, haven't you?

I would be facinated to know whether or not St Helens humour manages to reach the other side of the pond without sounding like the ramblings of a complete nutter? (not that it manages to do that crossing the Pennines

)

Derek

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:45 pm

Surely our cousins across the pond have read Tarka the Otter at school???........If not.....I'll get me coat!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:52 pm

Naaah - they'll have been too busy reading Tom Sawyer, watching Happy Days and oggling at Whistler's Mother

Derek

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:54 pm

Derek,
another quick question(before the drink wears off)
How long can you put chicken in the freezer for?
Alan

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:57 pm

Not as long as grapes?

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:58 pm

Its just that I put one in last night, and it was dead this morning!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:01 pm

Alan,

This isn't helping - now they think we're both mad

- maybe we should get the peanut butter guy to tell a story and we can slip away un-noticed

Derek

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:32 pm

Alan C wrote:Surely our cousins across the pond have read Tarka the Otter at school???........If not.....I'll get me coat!

huh!! stop drinking

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:49 pm

Derek Turnbull wrote: Whether or not all or most of the difference is attributable to the roots I cannot say but from the outside it appears to be the only significant difference between the production method of the 2 wines.

Another way to look at it, is why do ungrafted vines only grow successfully in that particular spot? The flip side to saying its the roots could be that it is the spot.....perhaps whatever allows the ungrafted vines to flourish in that particular spot (soil chemistry? Angle of the sun? Proximity to the animal pens?

) is responsible?

Jay

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:00 am

jay,

I could see how the pigs urine could reach the plot next to the house but how would it manage to find it's way to the top of the hill on the other side of the Quinta

Derek

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:14 am

Seriously, Jay could have a point. I thought the pigs were allowed to roam free from time to time. Naturally, the first place they would stop to root around in the soil for food would be the plots of land closest to their sty.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the reason that Nacional has been successful all these years is because of the activity of the pigs - a new marketing slogan comes to mind "Pig pee and poo prevents phylloxera"

Alex

Luc Gauthier · Post by **Luc Gauthier** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:49 am

Derek Turnbull wrote:Alan,

This isn't helping - now they think we're both mad - maybe we should get the peanut butter guy to tell a story and we can slip away un-noticed

Derek

You see, the pig pee never actualy reached the vines . The back of the Phylloxera is yellow . Therefore it was naturaly pissed off/on

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:07 am

Luc,

You see, the pig pee never actualy reached the vines . The back of the Phylloxera is yellow . Therefore it was naturaly pissed off/on

Have you guys got bored with me and started talking in code, so I wont understand? That 'highlighted quote' flew over my head at 30,000 feet! Have they started to put those funny mushrooms in the Peanut Butter? :)
And can I be nosey? Is Luc your full first name or short for something, and why Tanker? If your answer is 'Its snowing in Lenningrad', I'll know its all code.
Alan

Luc Gauthier · Post by **Luc Gauthier** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:15 am

No code Alan , just a warped sence of revisionist history .
Luc is my 1st name ( followed by Henry and Pierre )
As for Tanker , as a youth , when I played organized ice hockey in Montréal , I looked like and moved like a tank on skates . Whenever I had the puck , my mom would yell : Skate Tanker !! Skate !!
AND , before every practice , I would have a peanut butter and brown sugar sandwich

It all went down hill from there . . . 'till I found Port :)

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:25 am

Luc,
Good to know.
And I can see that 'Skate Tanker,Skate!' coming in useful in future correspondence.

Alan.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:14 am

Jay Powers wrote: Proximity to the animal pens? ) is responsible?

Jay

Jay,
Never thought about that...but you may have the answer. A little raw pig fertilizer just may be the trick

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:08 am

I had the chance last night to ask Christian Seely what was on the Nacional parcel of land before it was replanted in 1925. The answer he gave was that he doesn't know! Noval lost all its historic records in that disasterous fire and with that loss of records also went the loss of the knowledge of what was there before.

Were there vines there or was a moratorios? Don't know
If there were the vines there, were they on original or grafted rootstock? Don't know.
If there were vines already there, why were they dug up and replanted? Don't know.

Sadly, even the people with the personal memories of this time seem to have passed away and so it is likely that unless and until someone comes across a reference in a contemporary book or magazine or newspaper then we will probably never know the circumstances of that ended up giving rise to the legend that is Nacional.

Alex