In Portugal n May. Any Recommnded Purchases???

[Roy Hersh]

Jay, do you think we'd be able to sell bumper stickers like this?

Don't blame me, I don't live in Ohio ... or Florida!

[Andy Velebil]

Jay, do you think we'd be able to sell bumper stickers like this?

Don't blame me, I don't live in Ohio ... or Florida!

WOW

[Jay Powers]

Jay, do you think we'd be able to sell bumper stickers like this?

Don't blame me, I don't live in Ohio ... or Florida!

I think we could sell a lot of those in CA, OR, WA, NY, MN, etc. There seems to be something about that "conservatives hate water" thing

Jay

[Roy Hersh]

Back on track ... some of the best buys can be found at the airport duty free shops. Look for the 20 year old Tawny, Duque de Braganca (by Ferreira) which is 29 Euros. Also, if you get to some of the wine shops in the Lisbon area there are many great deals on old Colheitas and Madeiras. On the island of Madeira, you can do quite well ... IF you know where to shope.

[Alan C.]

To finish off, my original question,

I've been and come back. Great trip, drank lots of Port, and scoured the bars and restaurants and the Supermarkets and Wine Shops around Albefuria. They certainly had Port in abundance, and I kept changing my mind before homing in on around a Dozen WishList bottles.

I then started to text Derek, who began comparing it to the English Wine Searcher prices, for venues in the UK. To my dissapointment, they were all much more expensive where I was. This was as well as Portugal NOT having the horrendous Tax burden on alcohol that we have here.

I couldn't avoid the fact that that this Area, which used to be my favourite Holiday destination, was now 'Ripping Off' the Tourist. Go away from Port, and there were examples everywhere. Litre bottles of Water were 3€ in shops near the hotels, and 30 cents in shops ten minutes away. On one Golf Course I paid 10€ for 4 Small bottles of water. Or 85€ for 5 Sandwiches. In the Hotels a half decent glass of VP Port from the 90's was 10€. (Todd, I tried a Niepoort 2003(I think), and it was the same brutal fruit punch, I associate with all the younger Ports.)
The end result is they will make a fast buck, but it will not last. Spain went down this road 15years ago. Far to greedy and not prepared for the enevitable drop in trade around the corner. It was like that Resteraunt Advice List that Mario Posted a while back, all about maximising profit, and forgeting who you are making money out of. Sometimes you cant see the woods for the trees.

In the end, I limited my self to a Fonseca 85 and Warres 80 in the Duty Free in Faro. Plus a few cheap bottles. I know that because of my advice alone, our group of 12 Tourists bought NO Port or Wine from the Locals. If they can afford to avoid custom, on a much grander scale, good luck to them.

Alan

[Andy Velebil]

To my dissapointment, they were all much more expensive where I was.

Yeah, just doesn't make sense does it :?

I tried a Niepoort 2003(I think), and it was the same brutal fruit punch, I associate with all the younger Ports.)

Alan, your not allowed to drink younger VP's, so how whould you know

[Todd Pettinger]

In the Hotels a half decent glass of VP Port from the 90's was 10€. (Todd, I tried a Niepoort 2003(I think), and it was the same brutal fruit punch, I associate with all the younger Ports.)

Alan, I hope you ARE still hanging around here, despite the post I saw of yours in the Website suggestions forum... but I'm proud of you!!

I would say that you likely needed to give that Niepoort '03 a few hours (if not a day) in a decanter, but I'm betting that was not an option on the type of trip that you were on! :)

Hope you're still around Alan, and once again - proud of ya big guy!

Todd

[Alan C.]

Although its quite right that my experience of the youngsters is limited, and therefore my opinion can be easily dismissed, it doesn't inspire me to give it much more investigation!

How are the prices in Oporto??? Are they as high there? An if so, whats going on? They dont have the same tax burden, so is it just pure profit?

If it is, I'm thankful I live in a Country that must play hardball with the Shippers. I want the Shippers to thrive and prosper, but only with a reasonable profit.

Alan

Todd,
Now I've tried another youngster, do you want to pop over and we'll get rid of the taste with that Fonseca 85 I picked up?

[Derek T.]

How are the prices in Oporto??? Are they as high there? An if so, whats going on? They dont have the same tax burden, so is it just pure profit?

Alan,

In my experience the prices in wine shops in Oporto and VNG are simply absurd, much like you found in the south only more extreme as they have a captive port-loving market.

The prices at the shippers lodges in VNG are also, in general, extremely high considering they have no cost of shipping and no third party profits to build into the price. Worst of all in my experience are the Symington shippers which I found to be vastly over-priced. Best example I found was Noval, their prices for Nacional in both VNG and on the Quinta are probably as low as you will find outside an auction.

There have been discussions here previously about the missed opportunity for shippers to encourage tourists to buy ex-cellars high quality VP's at great prices, thereby introducing them to a product range they may otherwise not consider and never have the opportnity to appreciate. Perhaps a future question for the shippers in Roys Newsletter?

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

But as with any producer of a product, they typically sell it themselves at the full suggested retail price so as not to upset (and undercut) their retailers or distributors.

[Alan C.]

Andy,

Your probably right, but are they?
Cigars are cheaper in Cuba. Cigarettes are cheaper in Europe than the UK. Whisky,etc is a third cheaper than in Europe than the UK because of our Tax Burden. But Port isn't ???
Strange! It does smack of profiteering.

Alan

[Andy Velebil]

Porto and NvdG are both touristy places. When we were there, there were bus loads of tourists going to the Port lodges. Might as well make some money from unknowning tourists. Besides, it leaves more for us....just not in the pocket book

[Derek T.]

But as with any producer of a product, they typically sell it themselves at the full suggested retail price so as not to upset (and undercut) their retailers or distributors.

Andy,

There are lots and lots of examples of manufacturers selling their products from their own outlets, specifically where on the same site as their production facility, at vastly reduced prices. The UK is awash with Factory Shops, Factory Outlet Shopping Malls etc. I have also seen these in the US and am currently wearing a pair of Timberland shoes which cost me $20 3 years ago to prove it.

If the shippers waned to sell what would amount to small amounts of their product over the counter in VNG at 50% of retail they could, and the distributors would not care as it would not impact their home markets in the UK, US or anywhere else. I agree that shipping direct from VNG at low prices for bulk orders would be a different story but I am talking about people buying 2 or 3 bottles at the end of a tour to carry home.

Derek

PS: If this ever becomes a reality I reserve the right to go the VNG to buy case loads of very old VP at 50% retail and arrange to have them shipped home on the FTLOP (UK Branch) Raft which will not land at a controlled harbour

[Andy Velebil]

But large companies aren't affected by it as much as a smaller one. Yes, Taylors is a big company, but small when you compair them to Nike or Microsoft. Besides, a lot of what discount stores sell are the damaged, returned, blemished, or outdated stuff, and most of that is non-food related items.

[Andy Velebil]

PS: If this ever becomes a reality I reserve the right to go the VNG to buy case loads of very old VP at 50% retail and arrange to have them shipped home on the FTLOP (UK Branch) Raft which will not land at a controlled harbour Laughing Laughing

That "Harbor" would be the Port of Long Beach....a stones throw from my house...I'll make some phone calls and US Cutoms won't give us any problems :twisted:

[Derek T.]

....and most of that is non-food related items.

I have to disagree, my 3 year old Timberland shoes have an aroma which is reminicent to a good quality aged Stilton :?

Seriously, take this example. A "tourist" visiting the Taylor lodge in VNG looks at the price list and see's Taylor's Vargellas 1996 @ 20 Euro and Taylor's VP 1963 at 100 Euro - 99 out of 100 would buy the Vargellas 96 to take home. The 1% who actually know something about port would obviously pop for the other option, but 80% of them would otherwise never have paid full retail price for a Taylor 63.

I agree that simply chucking cheap old VP over the counter with little thought to strategy would be wrong, but with some clever thinking and setting prices which are targeted at specific markets the shippers have an opportunity to introduce their premium products to an audience that would never otherwise think to pay for them.

Derek

[Alan C.]

To get down to basics, there cant be just me and my gang who kept loads of money in their wallets, when they were genuinely ready to spend.

For all the Tourist Mugs, there must now be a large amount of money they are not tapping into. But hey, their business, their choice. Debs was happy. She thought I might have gone mad...and I would have liked to.

Alan

[Andy Velebil]

But how many tourist really know the current price of, say, a 1963 Taylor's VP or a 1983 Gould Campbell or a 1994 Fonseca....not very many I would guess. You and I might know, then again we are nerds remember

As for your shoes....All I can say is, Toe-jam

[Derek T.]

To get down to basics, there cant be just me and my gang who kept loads of money in their wallets, when they were genuinely ready to spend.

Alan,

You are well aware of the complete lack of self control that I have when I spot a good deal on a bottle or two of VP. I spent 3 days in VNG 2 years ago and visited 12 lodges when I was there. I came home with 12 bottles, 3 of which were very well priced Nacionals and 1 cheap VP from Calem which I will be drinking in June for the VT. The others were LBV's etc at highish prices that I otherwise could not have bought here in the UK.

I went over there expecting to order and ship a few cases of VP at great prices. I too came home with my cash and the shippers missed out. You are not alone

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

You are well aware of the complete lack of self control that I have when I spot a good deal on a bottle or two of VP.

You too huh?