Storage Conditions - Fact or Fiction

[Alan C.]

Julian,

I apologise if you know a bit about this subject, but if your just musing commen sense theories, I would do the same, and say that your point, which sounds good, is surely counter-balanced by the fortification. A pure neutral brandy is added which must have good preservative qualities. That was the whole point in the first place, to make the wine last much longer than normal.

I suppose we need an expert now to remind us all how common sense is sometimes hopelessly off the mark.

Alan

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Compare:

• Fortification that multiplies alcohol by 1½, and three decades in a cellar;
• No fortification, and half a decade in the cellar.

I have no experimental evidence, but still can guess which would be more sensitive to cellar conditions.

[Alan C.]

I thought average wine was around 12% and Port around 20%, I would have thought that 8% of extra alocohol may have a significant difference, but I cant rule out a Chemist telling me I'm spouting rubbish.
How do you get your 'multiples by 1 and a half'. Is that saying 12% turns to 20% by roughly that multiple?
If so. do you suspect that 8% extra is unlikely to assist it greatl,y through the general window of 15 - 50 years of most Ports?

If it isn't increased alcohol, what do you think allows it to survive? (We could still do with someone who knows)

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

14% → 21% ≈ 1½×

Typo fixed: multiples → multiplies.

[Alan C.]

Well that sorted the maths aspect of your point!

[Tom Archer]

FWIW - my cellar - not as deep as some, and in a slightly warmer part of England compared to the average - is today registering 60F and 84% humidity.

The temperature is day/night stable, but rises and falls noticeably from summer to winter. Humidity fluctuates quite noticeably from day to day, and after a couple of damp days is now running a little high.

According to some pieces that have found their way into print, my humidity levels shoud be reducing all my bottle lables to compost.

However, there is no noticeable degradation, and the timber joists and lintels from 1869 - when my house was built - are also sound.

Tom

[Alan C.]

Another thread developing tonight caused me to raise this, again

The lodges in VNG are not air conditioned and the temperature fluctuation from night to day and month to month must be significant. Now I have seen evidence of some parts of some of these cellars being underground, where the temperature would be more stable, but I have also seen bottles of VP and casks of old tawny stored above ground level.

The very fact that 99.99%+ of the wine that comes from VNG is not cooked tells me that we are all a bit too anal about our storage conditions :?

Discuss..............
Derek

So although it would be superb to have all our Port cellared in prime conditions, I agree with Tom and Dereks original point, we are dealing with a robust product that has very good preservation qualities. Yes you have the odd disaster for various reasons, but the bulk would survive being tossed into the kitchen cupboard.

To me this is similar to the over-precision used in decanting times. You need an aspect of luck in waiting for a lot of VP Ports to fully integrate and blow off the heat. But when they have, they go chugging on for several days, with the biggest problem being having any left after a few days to see!

I've also just read a piece were the Author claimed it wise to change the Corks on VP's after 30 years. Thats a new one on me. Any one else heard or tried this theory?

Alan

[Moses Botbol]

I've also just read a piece were the Author claimed it wise to change the Corks on VP's after 30 years. Thats a new one on me. Any one else heard or tried this theory?

Alan

I am bet that is a good idea, but how many do that to wine where it is more important? Why ruin the capsule and put a generic cork in? If I were to go to that point, I would decant it and pour back in the bottle. I've been meaning to do that some 85's I have as a test to see how they will continue to age.

[Tom Archer]

they go chugging on for several days

Agree - provided they don't get warm..

I've also just read a piece were the Author claimed it wise to change the Corks on VP's after 30 years

There is a grain or two of sense here, but perhaps not much more..

After 30 years, the incidence of seepage begins to increase, but assuming you do drink the odd bottle, and manage your cellar in a broadly Darwinian manner - survival of the fittest - then by keeping an eye out for low levels and damp capsules, you can easily weed out the odd weakling without much issue.

Also, the likelihood of a cork breaking as you draw it greatly increases after this period of time, so if you want to make a clean job of re-corking, there is a logic to making a pre-emptive strike.

Even with my grandiose long term plans, I don't expect the number of bottles opened with replacement corks to ever exceed 5% of the total - assuming I ever get round to finishing my cork extraction machine..

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

but assuming you do drink the odd bottle, and manage your cellar in a broadly Darwinian manner - survival of the fittest - then by keeping an eye out for low levels and damp capsules, you can easily weed out the odd weakling without much issue.

Also, the likelihood of a cork breaking as you draw it greatly increases after this period of time, so if you want to make a clean job of re-corking, there is a logic to making a pre-emptive strike.

Tom

With port and cigars, I cull the weakest ones first, going from worst to best... Makes sense. Why open a perfect bottle when there's one leaking right next to it?