For The Love Of Port

So lets just cut to the chase here. Seems most of us are in agreement that it doesn't matter if they are old vines or young vines. Either ones can and do produce great wines. What really matters is vineyard management, soil conditions, and weather.

Personally, I think the whole "old vine" thing is generally a bunch of hog-wash that has perpetuated for many years as a way to charge more for the old vine wines. Which in theory should be cheaper as there is actually less physical labor required in vineyard management, thus less expense overall. of course that can be offset a little by lower production levels, but those same lower levels can be achieved with young vines too through crop thinning.

Andy,

Ask your brother ... it is not the same thing. Lowering crop yields by green harvesting, is not the same as naturally having low yields due to vine stress (temperature/lack of water) or by having old vines which produce more concentrated juice =lower pulp to juice ratios than young vines. That is not a myth. However, one's belief that old vines produce better quality juice is in the eye of the beholder and ultimately what this thread is all about. Some believe the hype and clearly you don't. I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer anyway. Just about hearing people's personal opinions and preferences.

There really is no difference if the new buds are removed in time from younger vines and if the canopy is also managed. The problem generally happens due to large vineyards where the workers just can't manage them in time and they end up removing the buds to late and allowing to much canopy to grow. Thus they take much needed nutrients and/or pollenation from the others that end up remaining. Add in also that with new vines no one really knows how they will behave and respond, so there is a learning curve for all the workers. Obviously smaller vineyards are much easier to keep an eye on and manage than larger ones. But like I said earlier, young vines and older vines tend to do quite well. It's when they hit the teenage years where there is the most problems. Also like I mentioned earlier, as vines get older the workers know what to expect and tending to them is much easier, thus making it easier to produce better grapes. Of course we are talking about all outside environmental issues (weather, rain, soil, etc) being the same for the two. Really, with old vines, it comes down to having more experience with how to manage those vines. It isn't soley due to a vine just being old.

And for the record I consulted with an expert, the info came from your favorite Zin producer here in Cali

I also don't think there is a right or wrong answer, but a good debate is always fun