I can get Noval Black for about $18/bottle, or $72 for 3 liters. But those 3 liters come with 4 glass bottles that need to be recycled and 4 corks that get thrown away.
Put 3 liters of Noval Black in a box and sell it for $65. I assume that the savings from the bottles and corks would translate into at least a $7 price reduction. But the best part is that the wine in the box wouldn't go bad once opened... it'd easily last a couple of months. Well, in MY house it'd last a couple of months. I can't speak for some of you here. I drink slowly enough that even a bottle of Ruby Reserve or LBV has started to go downhill by the time I finish it, but that wouldn't be the case with boxed Port.
The "image" of it being cheap just wouldn't happen. A $65 box of Port is not cheap. But that's why this would have to be done with a good Ruby Reserve or an LBV... a 3 liter box of basic Ruby would be pretty cheap and so that image would stick.
It would be interesting to know what the average shop/shelf-time is for a bottle of ruby port. A quick bit of internet research suggests that boxed wine is good when unopened for about one year from filling and then a further 4-6 weeks once opened. I can see how that works with table wine at the cheaper end of the spectrum, but on gut feeling I'm less convinced there would be sufficient market to make a $65 box of port workable.
Also, if we're talking Noval Black, their branding seems to be heading in a somewhat different direction than bag-in-box. I can't see Noval wanting to risk diluting their intended message about port by taking on box-wine preconceptions as well.
I think the biggest market for this could be the hotel and restaraunt trade who serve by the glass. In 80% of these places, probably more, they have no idea how to serve port and you will often have a glass from a bottle that was opened so long ago that it has gone down hill badly. This would give them a better supply of "fresh" product. Those of us who drink more Port than 99.9999% of the population of the world could just use this as a convenient option to always have some LBV or Reserve port "on tap" as a cellar defending option.
Well done Derek, indeed the off-premise (or what the Brits call "Off Market" if I am not mistaken) would be a great opportunity but the price would have to be supported so that this won't turn into a cooking Port fad in France.
For me this is much like the comparison of a regular book versus an electronic book reader (like the Kindle). There are those who like the convenience, portability and high-tech options provided by a book reader. (Just as there are those who would like the savings and convenience of Port in a box/bag). But as for me, just as I prefer an old-fashioned paper-and-ink book, I think I would prefer to buy Port in a glass bottle with a cork--the box might be cheaper, but far less romantic/traditional/pleasing to look at. (However, I think that for a restaurant selling Port by the glass, it would be a fabulous idea).
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall never cease to be amused.
Sorry, guys I just can't go there. I think the pink port will end up in a box like cheap white zin. There might be a limited market of serious ruby port drinkers for box ruby , but I still think the image of cheap extra alcohol wino juice will be hard to overcome.
Roy Hersh wrote:Well done Derek, indeed the off-premise (or what the Brits call "Off Market" if I am not mistaken) would be a great opportunity but the price would have to be supported so that this won't turn into a cooking Port fad in France.
Let it be used for cooking if they want. Perhaps the food will be even better if the port is better to start off with.
If boxed port becomes wino juice, so be it. Many box wine drinkers step up to bottles as their budget permits, and why should we restrict a wino from enjoying our favorite tipple?
I recenlty saw Reserve Grand Veneur - Cotes du Rhone from Alain Jaume & Fils come in a 3L box! The bottles which sell for $13 locally and offer the 3L box for $30! This is the first box wine I have considered buying.
I wonder how it would age compared to the bottle? How long does the wine last in the box once opened?
Moses Botbol wrote:I wonder how it would age compared to the bottle? How long does the wine last in the box once opened?
Boxed wine isn't intended to be aged, so I doubt that a comparison would be good.
Once the box is opened the wine can easily last a month because the plastic bag within the box collapses as the wine is dispensed, thus preventing air from entering which is the downfall of wine in bottles.
Glenn E. wrote:Boxed wine isn't intended to be aged, so I doubt that a comparison would be good.
Once the box is opened the wine can easily last a month because the plastic bag within the box collapses as the wine is dispensed, thus preventing air from entering which is the downfall of wine in bottles.
It's not about its intentions, just curious. Why wouldn't it age as well as the bottle? Does the bladder material effect the taste over time? Does the valve leak? Is it too well sealed? For $30 and 3-4 years waiting, it could be an interesting experiment. The box is 2008 and the bottles are 2007. 2008 bottles should be on the market soon too.
One can say tawny are not meant to age in the bottle, but we talk about it quite often.
Moses Botbol wrote:One can say tawny are not meant to age in the bottle, but we talk about it quite often.
Here's another datum point: My favorite Nimrod (last bottlings in mid-2008) is starting to fade. Not quite as much "thereness" as there once was. Only 4 bottles left in my cellar (out of several hundred).
Moses Botbol wrote:Why wouldn't it age as well as the bottle?
There's no cork!
But seriously, that's basically the reason. Boxed wines are sealed pretty tightly so I doubt that any air gets in to allow the wine to age properly. A similar argument can be made against screw caps, though my understanding is that artificial corks have been engineered to allow for proper breathing so they should age just fine. In theory.
Yesterday I bought a Platy Preserve for taking some Port backpacking. I'll decant, let it sit out for a while, then pour it into the Platypus bag for transport. It will keep the oxygen out and save me the weight of the bottle; for my own wine in a bag.
Moses Botbol wrote:I recenlty saw Reserve Grand Veneur - Cotes du Rhone from Alain Jaume & Fils come in a 3L box! The bottles which sell for $13 locally and offer the 3L box for $30! This is the first box wine I have considered buying.
I broke down and bought one today. Will let you know how it goes. I have a feeling there is no savings, just more drinking.
Moses Botbol wrote:I recenlty saw Reserve Grand Veneur - Cotes du Rhone from Alain Jaume & Fils come in a 3L box! The bottles which sell for $13 locally and offer the 3L box for $30! This is the first box wine I have considered buying.
I broke down and bought one today. Will let you know how it goes. I have a feeling there is no savings, just more drinking.
I remember taking leather bota bags and filling them with Sandeman Founder's Reserve, or Fonseca Bin 27 or Graham's Six Grapes (back in the mid-late 1980s) to take skiing with me. Especially for after lunch doing bump runs at Copper/Vail & Beaver Creek, the Port helped to fortify me. I would have used box Port wines if they'd existed back then. I seriously think that a solid Port would work wonders in a box. Lots of people DO like sweet wine (see the quantity of sales of WHITE ZIN in box) and if the price point were advantageous, this could be big.
Al B. wrote:I knew we'd discussed this before. How about AQFTPT based around this discussion - or more generally about alternative packaging / enclosures?
Agree.
I've said this before. I would love to have something like a Six Grapes or Bin 27 in a smaller box. That way I can leave it in the fridge and dispense a small amount of it without the rest going bad. Obviously there is no way I would want this for higher quality items. But for a Ruby Reserve and below, or a Tawny Reserve and below, why not?
I drink slowly enough that even a bottle of Ruby Reserve or LBV has started to go downhill by the time I finish it, but that wouldn't be the case with boxed Port.
