Dow 1896 Nebuchadnezzar (20 bottles)

[Roy Hersh]

Actually, Michael Broadbent was born in 1927 and his wife in 1931 ... the perfect couple for future Port consumption! He does not need a free pass though as then how do you charge the other guests if Richard and Jancis also show up?

More importantly, Julian ... I guess leaving out the smiley in my post ... you took the whole "underwriting" thing too serously. It is not only the Brits with a dry and wry sense of humor.

To the point: I had a brilliant Taylor '00 too, but that does not reflect on this large bottle we're discussing? As an aside, the 1851 is one of the three top vintages of the 19th century, along with 1863 and 1878. A tie between 1890 and 1870 but if given my druthers 1890. None of this reflects on the 1896 which was one of the first very fine vintages post-Phylloxera (the 1890 though is considered superior).

More than likely the bottle will still show very well and will be worthy of the historical sense surrounding the moment the bottle is to be opened. I hope you folks can hold off until mid-Oct. and I will make sure to be there. Otherwise, there is certainly a possiblity of the latter part of May, but I won't have my exact dates until the first week of March.

Given the option, knowing how many FTLOPers will be coming from the USA to Portugal on this year's harvest tour, it would be MUCH easier to fill this with a majority of friends from this Forum. Now those that attended our first FTLOP offline in London's Crusted Pipe ... can tell you what a blast we all had together, meeting for that fabulous Port event.

Julian, I am happy to work with you to make this a very significant event, if you'd like the promotional assistance and the ability to have a few key individuals from the Port trade and media. We can do this big bottle justice!

Roy

[Alex K.]

OK, I'm in!

Just one thing: how are we going to pour the damned thing? I have had the honour of pouring Champagne from a Methuselah on two occasions and that took its toll; I can still feel the twinge in my shoulder. This thing is more than twice the size.

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

No free passes. None. We are not short of people willing to taste, comment, and make witty conversation (I can rustle up a score+ friends at short notice). We are short of people willing to help pay for a £10,000 bottle. Ideally I want people willing to pay who then don’t drink: I’ll settle for those who will both pay and drink. (And I say this having met and liked Michael Broadbent.)

Pouring is easy given four people. Two hold the neck, one prevents the base sipping, and number four shuffles along the decanters, one at a time.

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

In: jdaw1, bridgema, John Danza, sean_c+1, christopher, Jay Powers, uncle tom, bman, KillerB

Maybe: Roy Hersh, admin, Andy V.

So we have ten. It would take more than ten to drink this thing, and a lot more than ten to pay for it. We need more people.

Let me propose a specific date: if it were on Monday 10th September 2007, would you come?

[Andy Velebil]

I would be interested, but as I plan to attend the next Roy-trip, It would have to be at the beginning or end of that. As there is no way I could afford a trip across the pond for one tasting. And if I could get the extra days off work.

[John Danza]

Let me propose a specific date: if it were on Monday 10th September 2007, would you come?

I'm fine with 10 September 2007.

As far as Roy's suggestion about mid-October, I could do Monday, 15 October. Any later in the month and I probably couldn't do it, but again it would depend on date.

Thanks much.

John Danza

[SEAN C.]

I'm bringing a paying friend so count me plus one!

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Above post of attendees updated.

[Andy Velebil]

So we have ten. It would take more than ten to drink this thing

Julian,

You obviously have not drunk Port with some of the people from this forum....I assure you 10 of us regulars here could drink that with NO PROBLEM (saw that first hand on the Harvest Trip)

Cost is the major factor

[SEAN C.]

So we have ten. It would take more than ten to drink this thing

Julian,

You obviously have not drunk Port with some of the people from this forum....I assure you 10 of us regulars here could drink that with NO PROBLEM (saw that first hand on the Harvest Trip)

Cost is the major factor

I personally drank 1 & 1/2 bottles of Port this past New Years Eve plus at least 3 glasses of 1985 Lynch Bages... needless to say I almost died BUT there was NO way I could leave a 1948 Graham, 1948 Fonseca, and 1950 Sandeman for another day!
If I'm travelling to the UK to drink a once in a lifetime bottling of 1896 Dow I expect to be carried out on a stretcher..if not I could just stay home and drink the one bottle of the stuff that I already have.

[Roy Hersh]

Since when has this become all about one person making the decision for the group of FTLOP folks?

Let's all take a deep breath for a moment and look at the big picture. The ability to organize this event is not significant. I am currently organizing 4 projects simultaneously:

a. A Hanzell vertical tasting
c. The third in a four part series of (Jan. - March) Madeira tastings around the USA, this one to be held in Washington DC
d. Two week-long trips to Portugal in May.

So the fact that one individual has chosen to take the lead, while commendable and appreciated, he... nor me ... nor any other single individual is going to make the decisions for the rest of the participants of FTLOP. That goes for cost, dates and other dynamics that can be discussed nicely by the participants here on this Forum.

Afterall this began as an FTLOP event, not a private NOR individual one. Without the great group of FTLOP Forumites ... there IS NO TASTING. Obviously WE would like to see the largest turnout of FTLOP users, as possible, from as many parts of the globe as is feasible. At least that is my view and I am not the organizer, as Julian has rushed to the fore, which is fine by me!

That said, I ask that we withhold choosing a date for a few weeks, when Mario and I can lock in dates for the HARVEST TOURS which would enable a large group of US FTLOP members to participate alongside our UK FTLOP brethren. I hope that would be the ideal situation, to turn this into a full on FTLOP offline, with or without honored guests (who I agree with Julian ... must pay their own way).

Again, please take a deep breath and let's not let this festive event turn into something divisive!

Best regards,

Roy

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Slightly disagree, but only slightly. There is a bottle for sale. Decisions may be taken by anyone willing to pay £10k, or by anyone who can gather together a group of people willing to pay £10k. I won’t pay £10k alone, and — as yet — don’t have more than a third of such a group of people. So, via the FTLOP forum, via email, and via face-to-face conversations, I am endeavouring to put together such a group. That entitles me to make proposals, and — to some extent — to take decisions, to which others may then choose to be bound, or not to be bound (by politely declining). If every proposal requires complete consensus (or requires not being vetoed by our illustrious leader) then it becomes impossible for anyone except that leader to arrange anything via these forums. Perhaps what I’m saying is that I do not have the authority to brand things ‘FTLOP’, so this cannot be a ‘FTLOP event’.

To deal with the other point: the objective is to have enough people to have about ½ bottle each. That isn’t stretcher-worthy, but is an evening’s taste-worthy. When I invite friends to a tasting the ‘budget’ is 1½ bottles per British male, that number being halved for Americans (presumably because I have yet to invite a FTLOP American) and halved for females. (Extensive comment on this ¶ would ideally go into a new thread.)

So far, ten people. Any more?

[John Danza]

Roy, I hear where you're coming from, and it certainly makes sense to tie it to an FTLOP event if at all possible if for no other reason than to extend the number of attendees at the event.

No problem for me to wait a few weeks to see how the dates on the FTLOP trip shake out. Would it just make the most sense to officially put this tasting on the front or back end of that trip, and then organize with it in mind? It certainly addresses the issue of official organization. Personally, I think Julian has done a tremendous job thus far gathering the information we know and I greatly appreciate his handling of it. But if the tasting dinner gets associated with an FTLOP trip, that's cool too.

All the best,
John

[Roy Hersh]

John,

You have hit the nail on the head 2x!

First and foremost, Julian has led the charge and has done a great job so far of putting this all together. Nobody is trying to usurp his authority or ability to organize this event. I will help in anyway that he sees fit, whether to include this in the newsletter (we'd sell it out really fast that way!!!), inviting UK-based wine media with a penchant for Port (I know them personally) and including the Symington's, which might be a great gesture (my contacts there run deep). But, if he does not want my assistance, that is ok too.

Your point about this being an FTLOP event, is the crux of the discussion. This was brought up by Christopher Gee a UK friend of mine and FTLOP '06 Harvest Tour member and May '07 Fortification Tour participant too. All of the brainstorming has been done HERE on FTLOP by FTLOP Forum users. The excitement in both the UK and USA and probably in other areas where people are reading this ... is extensive. I would absolutely ask just one thing, that the EVENT/DINNER take place before or after the 2007 Harvest Tour, just like we did the 2005 London Offline after the 2005 tour in Oct. and then all met up in London after a few days off to enjoy the isle of Madeira.

We should have dates ready no later then the 2nd week of March and then Julian will have an exact date and still have well over a half a year to make this happen. It should be quite easy to do and I just hope he will be willing to have this be a FTLOP-based event, before opening it up to everyone else. There are lots of lurkers here amongst the thousands of newsletter readers. So if we tried to include them too ... we could probably encourage new participation to the FORUM (which is still 100% Free) and would be a nice way to bring lurkers "to the table" and have our Port and drink it too!

Thanks for your post and support of Julian's role as organizer!

[Derek T.]

If this event is to be a success (or happen at all), using this forum as the vehicle for attracting and securing attendees, then it must be done in a manner with which we are all comfortable. I for one do not want to be railroaded into a take it or leave it situation. I would also like to turn up on the night with the expectation that everyone attending was there because this was an FTLOP port tasting event, not just a chance to swig down a couple of glasses of rare port.

Having attended 4 FTLOP events in the past 18 months I can say with some authority that the experience of meeting the people and sharing conversation and experience with them has vastly outweighed the port tasting on each and every occassion. This includes sitting with various glasses of Noval and Noval Nacional in front of me simultaneously in the Quinta do Noval dining room. Whilst this was a thrill, it did not compare to the memory of sharing the experience with the company and the host.

It may be worth some members searching back in time to look at the approach that Alex Bridgeman took to organise and execute the first and very successful FTLOP tasting in Nov 05. There is a stark contrast between the friendly and respectful approach taken by Alex and "come if you've got the cash and don't if you don't" approach that is emerging in this thread.

If anyone disagrees with this post, please look in the top left hand corner of your web browser before responding

Derek

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Herding cats, eh? These events require a driving force, otherwise they just don’t happen. The trickiness of this one is its non-scalability: fewer people cannot mean fewer bottles. Hence the recognition that the biting constraint is indeed the lolly. And hence my attempt to be the required driving force, to take the decisions that would otherwise not be taken. And — for which I apologise — I wasn’t aware that anything arranged via this BB becomes FTLOP-owned.

Helpfully Roy has now announced a date for a date: second week of March. That’s plenty soon enough (though I’ll be in the UK at the Nacional tasting that week). Soon after I will try again to coalesce a team around a date in what will probably be October. If that date doesn’t work there will be another candidate date in January or February 2008 (being the Monday after the LIIIrd Annual Dinner of that august drinking establishment, the Cambridge University Tiddlywinks Club).

Edit: that dinner is on Saturday 26th January 2008, so my ideal backup date would be Monday 28th January 2008.

[Jay Powers]

At this point, given that it is so far in the future, fall 2007 seems good to me, and the particular date is not critical for me as I can plan around it given 6-months notice.

I am also fine with everybody, even the "notables" paying their way.

Without trying to address the posts above, it would seem to make sense and in many ways be easier to get subscribers to the event if we try to arrange it adjacent to the FTLOP trip.

I have never been to the UK and would love to visit. This single event, with sufficient notice, would be enough to get me there. But it would be even more fun to link it with another tasting on the night before or after. If we have a single wine to taste on "the night", perhaps a mix of wines on another night, as Alex organized before. I would be willing to bring a bottle along with me, or purchase something ahead of time to pick up while I'm there.

I would also like to assure anybody who doubts the US port drinkers ability to have a "manly" portion of port, that I and many others here can certainly step up to the plate

[Tom Chadwick]

Wow, I have spent my lunch break reading these threads, I have been to Boisdale a few times and have had unbelievable evenings, sadly the events must remain unknown, I know that on some evenings they have a jazz band come and play who, when I have been , were amazing, that would be a nice feature to the evening.

Sadly, prices for me are well above my head, on a lowly auctioneers salary. But did you know.......

1896

Jan 4th Utah became 45th US state
Jan 20th George Burns was born (d.1996)
Feb 1st Opera La Boheme premiered
June An earthquake and Tsunami killed 27,000 people in Japan
Aug 27th The shortest war in history took place, Anglo-Zanzibar war, started at 9am and finished 45 mins later.

Whenever you decide to have the evening I hope it is magical and I look forward to hearing the news afterwards. My '31 experience will have to remain at the top of the list for a while longer for me......

cheers

[Michael Ferrier]

Mention of things that happened in the year 1896 jogged my memory of a letter my uncle wrote to me a couple of years ago, not long before he died. He wrote :

' I remember the day after war was declared (September 4 1939). My father, my brother (my father) and I were down at the Hall and Papa went down to the cellar to see what was there. He came back with four bottles of '96 port- laid down the year he was born. Papa was leaving that day to join the Foreign Office, my brother was leaving for the 2nd. Battalion (The Royal Norfolk Regiment) and I had enlisted that day. We drank two bottles and agreed to drink the other two when peace came. When it did the Hall was sold, Papa was in Madrid, my brother in Hokkaido and I in Surathani in Siam. I think that if my bother and I had known that we would have more than another 50 years we would have been very grateful '

Accordingly I should like to be counted in for the tasting, if only to pass on the memory of 1896 port to another generation.

On a technical note, one think that I am curious about is whether Dows would have bottled this Nebuchadnezzar in 1898 on spec, as it were, or would it perhaps have been bottled some years later from the contents of 20 ordinary bottles? In the write-up in the wine list it refers to the bottle being ordered for a 70th. birthday party in the '20s - it would seem surprising if it was ordered in 1898 for a party some 20 years later.

[Alan C.]

Great recollection. I hope it all comes off and your there. I'm sure it will be quite poignant.
I cant be sure, but if you read the advert in the first Post, it refers to a hand blown bottle ordered for the party. Unless anyone knows of Port Houses doing this per se, it must surely be assumed, the bottle was specifically made for this occasion. Then bottled from the cask, from their reserves, for this order. It may be difficult to disprove this theory without official records.
As for myself, I know this is of no use to the Organisers, but I'm awaiting the final dates and prices before commiting. I accept if the majority were like me, the event wouldn't happen, but personal circumstances dictate.