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Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:59 am
by Edward J
My visit to PC was satisfactory, the place was a showplace located on prime real estate in the heart of Berzerkly. Still I don't see this property getting sold anytime soon, unless in a lien sale.
The extravagant 29,000-square-foot Berkeley building complex, on which Fox owes more than $270,000 in delinquent property taxes, is still listed on a real estate brokerage site for $6.8 million.
Re: Premier Cru update
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:24 pm
by Thomas V
Would be great if the legal authorities freezed up Premier Crus's assets until these pending lawsuits have been resolved. That would include the physical building.
Re: Premier Cru update
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:18 am
by Eric Ifune
I've bought quite a bit from Premier Cru over the years. I also bought from the departed Carolina Wine Company in the past as well. I always bought wine in stock, however. As a result, I was not burned when the Carolina Wine Co folded, nor do I have any exposure to Premier Cru.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:27 am
by Andy Velebil
FYI, To make things easier for all and to find later, I merged this topic with the one in the Other Discussions as they are all about PC.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:26 am
by Andy Velebil
PREMIER CRU HAS FILED FOR CHAPTER 7 BANKRUPTCY
Here's a summary from Don Cornwell over at WB site.
MORE INFO on the BK....
Case No. is 16-40050. The Chapter 7 Petition was filed at 1:23 pm on Friday, January 8.
The assigned Chapter 7 Trustee is Michael G. Kasolas of San Francisco.
The Bankruptcy Judge is William T. Lafferty of the Oakland Division of the Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of California.
The Petition lists total estimated assets of $7 million and total liabilities of $70,285,181. The secured claims are $936,033. Unsecured priority claims are $175,000. The unsecured claims are $69,174,148.
The listed assets consist of:
$50,000 of accounts receivable
a 60% interest in 1011 University LLC, of which the debtor owns 60%, with a listed value of "unknown"
Inventory of $6,800,000, consisting of $6.5 million of inventory listed as being "on site" and $300,000 which is "held by other parties - amount is an estimate and may be subject to offset"
"Furniture, fixtures and equipment from store (value is estimate), likely covered by bank lien" - $150,000
The Bankruptcy Petition is 1401 pages long. The overwhelming portion of the pages are a listing the names addresses of all known creditors. Just under 1,000 unsecured non-priority creditors are listed with the amounts owed.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:59 am
by Andy Velebil
Here is the browser list (so you don't have to download 1,400 pages) of unsecured creditors. From what I've been reading there is some slight inaccuracies. But the list is staggering. Some well known people on that list and some high dollar amounts.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JZFw ... ZleGs/view
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:17 pm
by Bradley Bogdan
Wow, no kidding.
While I feel less bad for those who were majorly exposed on futures and treated it as an investment, it is no different than if you gave your money to your stock broker to buy stock and he/she never did. The risk is supposed to be in the value of what you're speculating on, not the buying of it.
Just a reminder of the level of risk in futures of anything. Ultimately you're putting your trust that someone will deliver that item. To me, rarely have I seen the cost savings offered in futures that would make me jump at them despite the risk. I definitely buy less high end wine than some here, but it's always seemed that there's never a shortage of something on release that isn't still attainable with some legwork. And if it's so rare that you can't buy it even with money in hand, well there's plenty of other delicious things that are in stock in plenty of places
.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:20 am
by Lindsay E.
Bradley,
I agree, and I felt this way with 2010 and 2011 Bordeaux futures (I didn't buy any) but I was astounded that you could basically buy something aged, in its prime, and from a reputable seller for less or equal to what some of the houses were getting on their current releases.
At least with stock brokers and money managers, there is something like Charles Schwab or Fidelity that can be used where the person in question only has the ability to make buying decisions that have a clear and fairly immediate paper trail so that you can basically micro manage what's going on. You don't have any of that type of security with the wine futures.
Andy, that "creditors" list you posted is staggering. I was in disbelief looking at the sheer volume of creditors and the individual amounts owed. Its one thing to hear that someone owes money to 1,400 hundred people, but its another thing to read each name individually and see a physical address for each of those people.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:40 am
by Glenn E.
One of my friends didn't manage to get his Port shipped (Krohns from the summer), so he's on the list of creditors.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:05 am
by Eric Menchen
Glenn E. wrote:One of my friends didn't manage to get his Port shipped (Krohns from the summer), so he's on the list of creditors.
Me, or someone else? Because I'm on that list, and bought some of those Krohns.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:56 am
by Andy Velebil
Eric Menchen wrote:Glenn E. wrote:One of my friends didn't manage to get his Port shipped (Krohns from the summer), so he's on the list of creditors.
Me, or someone else? Because I'm on that list, and bought some of those Krohns.
My understanding is the list isn't super accurate as some people are still listed as a creditor when they had no outstanding orders with PC. I suspect, as some others have mentioned, is their record keeping wasn't the best and/or they culled the list from an older database.
Eric,
Did you get all your Port?
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:11 am
by Eric Menchen
Andy Velebil wrote:Eric,
Did you get all your Port?
No. Someone else on the forum here actually got their 2011 Dow just a few months ago, so I was a little more optimistic for a while. Not so much now.
And I did purchase a couple of Krohns I haven't received yet as well.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:12 am
by Andy Velebil
Eric Menchen wrote:Andy Velebil wrote:Eric,
Did you get all your Port?
No. Someone else on the forum here actually got their 2011 Dow just a few months ago, so I was a little more optimistic for a while. Not so much now.
Sorry to hear
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:17 am
by Glenn E.
Eric Menchen wrote:Glenn E. wrote:One of my friends didn't manage to get his Port shipped (Krohns from the summer), so he's on the list of creditors.
Me, or someone else? Because I'm on that list, and bought some of those Krohns.
Someone else. He says he got an email last Thursday saying that his Port would be shipped today, but it didn't contain a tracking number or any sort of invoice/receipt. So he's still cautiously hopeful, but I'm guessing his Port won't ship today.
And of course they're neither answering the phone nor responding to emails, so he has no way of checking.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:24 pm
by Matt K
$1484.98
How much I've (apparently) been robbed.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:33 pm
by Andy Velebil
Matt K wrote:$1484.98
How much I've (apparently) been robbed.
Sorry to hear
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:47 am
by Eric Menchen
Matt K wrote:$1484.98
How much I've (apparently) been robbed.
I'm probably at about half of that, maybe a little less. Given the bankruptcy and being on the list, perhaps we will get something, but surely not what we are owed. 50%? Probably more like pennies on the dollar.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:07 pm
by Bradley Bogdan
Well, looking at the beginning of the filing, they've got roughly 7 mil in unleveraged assets (essentially inventory) and roughly 70 mil in unsecured debt. After legal fees, 5-8%?
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Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:58 pm
by Matt K
Thanks guys - that represented 2 buys for: 3x1932 Verdelho, and 1 each of 1908 and 1968 bual, all d'Oliveiras.
Hopefully I'll get something.
Re: Premier Cru warning
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:18 pm
by Matt K
FYI: I received notice & instructions for the US Bankruptcy court last week.
Seeing as they have $70MM in liabilities and $7MM in assets I'm filing a claim with Amex. They immediately credited back one order when I filed the claim online but the smaller 1/3rd wouldn't work online, I had to call in and they're 'opening' an investigation,' so I've no idea how this will work out.
Bottom line: file a claim with your CC company, IMO it's your best bet.