Unknown shipper 1910 Sercial

[Alan Gardner]

Can anybody help me identify the shipper of this 1910 Sercial?

Going from the Madeira Wine Guide list, the favorites would seem to be either d'Oliveiras or
HM Borges

Thanks,

Alan
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/portrai ... at=0&pos=0

http://www.fortheloveofport.com/portrai ... at=0&pos=1

[EDIT Seems as if I failed to upload the images themselves - can anyone point me to the right way to do this directly?]

[Reidar Andersen]

Quite certain it is D'Oliveiras.. Borges have a quite different design..

[Alan Gardner]

Thanks Reidar,
That was my guess as ALL my Borges bottles have the HMB stencil as well.
However, there was a possibility it was neither, if another shipper existed from 1910 (Peter hasn't updated his superb list recently - and I do already have a 1910 Sercial [ EDIT:- MALMSEY] from de Freitas that he hasn't listed).

Alan

edit: discovered the A De Freitas was a Malmsey - oh well, we'll drink it also!

[Gary Banker]

Besides the original six 1910 sercials on the list, I have found reference to two others: Miles (from TCWC) and Adegas de Torreao (from Garrafeira Nacional). So, there are at least nine out there.

Gary

[Alan Gardner]

Thanks Gary,
That opens up the possibilities (in theory) - so I've pulled a batch of madeiras of similar age from my cellar to compare.

I already have the Cossart 1910 and the size of the stencilled letters is clearly larger on the Cossart, so I'm guessing that represents the MWC 'stencil'. I have a similar stencil on some other old Blandy's as well. All my remaining Miles have a paper label.

Also I have a 1900 Adegas de Torreao and the stencilling style on that is very different. Almost seems as if each letter is outlined in a heavier paint.

I pulled d'Oliveiras from either side of 1910 and the resemblance is 'very close'. Almost as if the distance of the stencil from the bottle is slightly different. But (with a minor exception on the 'R' ) the other letters look identical.

My Borges are a bit younger, but their stencil is also different - much bigger 'black' spaces, so I presume their stencil has larger 'connectors' around the holes.

Unfortunately a bit too late to try and aggregate all the diferent bottlings for a 'horizontal' tasting.

Thanks again,

Alan

[Reidar Andersen]

By the way, my "Cossart" 1910 S was bought at RWC Dec 1985 and still has the orig AO-SM instead of Cossart. I got hold of it before they repainted it...

[Alan Gardner]

Mine came a few years later (early 90's) - it's clearly been repainted.

Alan

[Andreas Platt]

Thanks Reidar,
That was my guess as ALL my Borges bottles have the HMB stencil as well.

Hi Alan,

i know this doesn't help you but for example my Pather from Borges doesn't have a HMB stencilled, it simply says "P" in stencil.

Interestingly this bottle http://www.finestandrarest.com/images/M ... Pather.jpg does not have the "P" but a "Pather".

Anyone having more infos?

Thanks

P.S.: Or should i open another thread about this?

[Alan Gardner]

Hi Andreas,
I wasn't thinking 'completely' when I mentioned Borges - I was only referring to the 'commercial' Borges bottlings (as opposed to the 1720 & 1780 which I think of as 'Family' bottlings).
I passed on the 1720 (when it first surfaced) as my research indicated that Madeira wasn't 'routinely fortified' until the 1750's - and I was contacted early when these became 'suddenly' available. At that time the history was 'a little confusing' and I thought the risk of it being 'not fortified' was too high given the unverifiable provenance. But I did take a flier (actually 2) on the 1780 (despite misgivings - has Hardy Rodenstock ever been known for madeira?) and my remaining bottle does not have ANY producer stencilling at all. It only has a hand-written sticky label that identifies it as 1780 HMB!

And for completeness, the consumed bottle was amazing - the best aromatics of any wine I've ever had (but 'officially' I have to have a wine at least twice before I include it in my all-time favourites). So now I might be prepared to take a chance on the 1720!

It seems (to me) as if the P (or Pather) might have been added later - nothing like a stencil to authenticate a wine!!!!!!!