Page 1 of 1

Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:36 am
by Rune EG
From time-to-time I am experiencing bottles that have oxidized. During the last weeks there have been two, one was the 1987 Graham LBV (tasting note posted), and then it was a bottle of NV Andresen Dry White.

But more importantly is the following story: A few years ago I purchased in Portugal five bottles of Casa do Douro 1964. The first bottle was given as a gift to a person who never complained. The two others I have opened, and both of them were severely oxidized. The last two I have not yet dared to open. The bottles are numbered, and appear to be part of a total of one million (!!) bottles of Port wine from 1963 and 1964 that was sold by Casa do Douro. The label says Vinho Generoso and bottled 2004, and the contents of the two oxidized bottles looked / tasted something similar to Colheita.

Anyway, my question is; Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved after opening, or are they going to stay as they are regardless of what is being done of decanting, swirling etc? Any good suggestion would be helpful in case the last two 1964-bottles also appear to be oxidized.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:57 pm
by Eric Ifune
I doubt that a truely oxidized wine can be "rescued;" but I think it can be improved. An old British trick was to add a drop of Port to a glass of too old Claret. I think a drop of a young LBV could improve an oxidized old vintage Port. I think the youthful vitality of the younger wine sort of covers the flaws of the older one.
Interesting question!

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:22 pm
by Eric Menchen
I'm not a chemist, but I'm of the impression there isn't anything you can really do to remove the oxidation without causing other damage. Supposedly you can remove TCA with plastic wrap, but that's by extracting the chemical. The case of oxidation is different in that electrons have moved and molecules have changed, something that can't be pulled out. Maybe you can pull out the oxidation products, but what's left? All my related brewing studies have concerned preventing oxidation--I've never heard mention of undoing it. Now covering it up as Eric I. suggests, I hadn't thought of that.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:47 am
by Peter W. Meek
Once again, the "plastic wrap" TCA-removal is mentioned. You need to remember that the method requires actual Saran Wrap(TM). Saran is made from a different plastic than any of the other food wraps, and is required for effective TCA removal. You often hear people say that it didn't work for them, but upon questioning they say, "Oh, food wraps are all the same." Not so.

That said, I doubt if it would "cure" an oxidized bottle.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:33 am
by Eric Menchen
Thanks Peter for the clarification. I think I had heard Saran Wrap (TM), but was avoiding trademark infringement. But I suspect they'd be happy for the plug. I still haven't tested it.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:59 am
by Moses Botbol
Rune, you know I am not a chemist, lol. [cheers.gif]

I like the idea of a little fresher wine like Eric Ifune mentioned. I instinct is that oxidized is oxidized. Masking it would the "fix".

Is a bit of oxidation bad; that is another question.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:23 pm
by Peter W. Meek
Eric Menchen wrote:Thanks Peter for the clarification. I think I had heard Saran Wrap (TM), but was avoiding trademark infringement. But I suspect they'd be happy for the plug. I still haven't tested it.
I think they're happy as long as you use the (TM) (or (R), not sure which applies to Saran) symbol, capitalize and mention "Dow" every so often. If they don't defend it, a trade mark can become generic. If that happens, anyone can use it to describe their product.

Think how often you've heard coke and kleenex used generically. The owners of those names defend them rigorously. This is in the way of a test; if I get a warning, I'll let you know. The one that has gotten me the most warnings is Kevlar(R)*. I think they search daily for [ kevlar pwmeek** ] hoping to catch me at it again.



----------
* A duPont registered trademark for their aramid fiber. (They really are serious! They pay lawyers big bux to threaten me.)
** my login at almost every web site but this one, and eBay, where a long fight ended up with me losing.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:36 pm
by Derek T.
Eric/Peter: Beware the thread-drift police!!! :lol:

Rune,

I agree with the comments above that oxidation cannot be "rescued", as it is not a process that can be reversed. However, if I ever open a bottle that I think is oxidised or over the edge in terms of development I often drink it chilled as it dulls some of the more unpleasant aspects of the wine. I have tried the "refreshing" method described by Moses but sometimes this just ends up with more crap wine than you started with. Try one chilled and see if it works for you.

Derek

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:34 am
by Rune EG
Thanks for the various comments.
It seems that when a bottle is oxidized there is no way to really "rescue" or improve it.

I have tried Dereks suggestion by putting the bottle in the fridge for a shorter period and I agree that it helped in reducing the negative experience.
However not as as much as it would be considered to be "rescued" or significantly improved.

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:48 pm
by oscarquevedo
Derek T. wrote:I have tried the "refreshing" method described by Moses but sometimes this just ends up with more crap wine than you started with.
:D is that really a problem Derek? :winebath:

More seriously, I've not found anyone happy with these bottles from Casa do Douro. Casa do Douro in the last years/ decades didn't have the cash-flow necessary to buy young Ports, leaving these old containers untouched. It was important to refill, refresh or reblend these Ports, specially because they were aging in old warehouses, located in places where temperatures easily reach 35º and 40ºC in July or August, but nothing was done. So does my father bought few bottles :(

Rune, in any case, if you have a bottle of 10 Year Old Tawny or Reserve Tawny opened, adding 10% of this Casa do Douro may improve your 10Y. Hopefully, you won't end up with more crap!

Re: Question: Can oxidized bottles be rescued / improved?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:50 pm
by Derek T.
oscarquevedo wrote: if you have a bottle of 10 Year Old Tawny or Reserve Tawny opened, adding 10% of this Casa do Douro may improve your 10Y. Hopefully, you won't end up with more crap!
Now that is the kind of "refreshing" I can vote for, Oscar!
  • 90% good wine added to 10% crap wine = more reasonably good wine
  • 10% good wine + 90% crap wine = more crap wine
:D