Dow Late Bottled Vintage--a Change?

[John Trombley]

I have a great attachment to Dow LBVs, because in the past they were bottled unfiltered and after minimal wood aging. They were VP-like in structure and improved greatly with age.

Yesterday I picked up a bottle of 2003 Dow LVP, and am saddened to find that the product has changed. For what is a $27 tariff in Ohio (Meyer's), you now get a non-traditional LBV (bottled in 2008). Dow also used to hold these wines for at least 3 or 4 years after bottling them to make them more drinkable. So now we get a filtered port, over-wooded most like, put on the market soon after bottling. In addition this is the most expensive bottle of Dow LBV I've bought in Ohio.

In addition, I see CellarTracker has posted something called Dow Master LVP 2003, although there's none apparently available through WineSearcher. What's going on here? I suppose if I had kept up with my Port news better I'd already know, but this sounds to me like an unpleasant surprise--less wine for more money. What gives?

[Eric Ifune]

Don't know why they've changed.
Fortunately Warre is still unfiltered.
Noval is also.

[Eric Menchen]

For what is a $27 tariff in Ohio (Meyer's) ...

If you make it down to the Cincinnati area, try Jungle Jim's. Not all their prices are great, but I bet they'll beat $27 for an LBV.

[Andy Velebil]

Well, I can probably guess Meyer's is really jacking up the price, as that is quite expensive compared to what I normally see it at here in Cali. So i wouldn't take my anger out on Dow's....

Have you had a chance to taste this LBV yet? If not, I do look forward to your tasting note on it. And don't get to wrapped up in Cellartracker entry. I've found there is a lot of incorrect entries for Ports, as they are entered by users, which Eric has done a good job of fixing them as they are brought to his attention. Without looking I'd assume someone entered something inncorrectly regarding this Port. I'll check it in the morning and let Eric know of any issues in Cellar Tracker.

[Paul Fountain]

I bought an 04 Dows LBV on the weekend.
Again no mention of unfiltered. I'll write up a note when I open it.
It cost me AU $40

[Symington Family]

Dear John. Thank you for your comment on Dow's LBV. Dow's has not offered the "traditional" bottle matured style of LBV for many years. All Dow's LBV's for the last 30 years have been cask aged for 5 or 6 years, fined & racked before bottling and made available for immediate consumption. Although one can cetainly age these wines for a few years they are generally ready for immediate drinking.
Sorry to ask but are you sure you are not mixing Dow with two sister companies? Warre & smith Woodhouse whereby we bottle at the earliest moment within the LBV bottling window, at 4 years and then cellar them for 5 or 6 years before release.

In the early part of of the C.20th. many vintages were bottled at 3, 4, 5 or even 6 years, effectively becoming what we today refer to as LBV. After the war Vintage bottling became more strincly controlled (culminating in obligatory Oporto bottling for the 1975) and LBV evolved into a style on it's own. In the early 60's a couple of shippers offered "filtered" (or modern) LBV and after a few years most shippers followed. These wines were aged for up to 6 years in cask, either simply racked & fined or underwent a light filtration so as to ensure that the wine was "bright pouring". The extended cask aging effectivly meant that the potential crust would fall in the cask and not form in the bottle.
At the time only two shippers continued to offer "traditional" (bottle matured before release) LBV - Warre's & Smith Woodhouse. We did this by bottling at the earliest permitted moment - at 4 years (the LBV term can be used for wines bottled between 4 & 6 years of age) so as to mainatain as much of the structure and potential crust still in suspension in the wine.
In the last few years a new term has evolved for the modern style of LBV which frankly is rather confusing - unfiltered - Unfortunately although technically absolutely correct these LBV have not been cellared after bottling and therefore have not taken on the characteristics of the "traditional" LBV's. They are infact no different from "modern" LBV.

I hope this might help to answer your question.
best regards
Dominic Symington

[Moses Botbol]

All Dow's LBV's for the last 30 years have been cask aged for 5 or 6 years, fined & racked before bottling and made available for immediate consumption.

At the time only two shippers continued to offer "traditional" (bottle matured before release) LBV - Warre's & Smith Woodhouse. We did this by bottling at the earliest permitted moment - at 4 years (the LBV term can be used for wines bottled between 4 & 6 years of age) so as to mainatain as much of the structure and potential crust still in suspension in the wine.

Dominic Symington

Dominic, I could've swarn that Costco has Dow 2005 LBV that says "Unfiltered" on the front in clear print. Was my eyes or memory fooling me? I'll go back this weekend to check and of course buy some.

[Rune EG]

June this year I purchased a 2004 Dow's LBV unfiltered, which was consumed shortly afterwards.
Very nice.
It is stated both in the sales list of the Norwegian Wine Monopoly and on the bottle that it is unfiltered.

http://www.vinmonopolet.no/is-bin/INTER ... ry=Dow%27s

[John Trombley]

I'm sorry for any confusion this post has caused. It was somehow posted by accident before I could correct an essential error. My apologies to Dow's since the product mentioned wasn't even theirs. I even attempted to delete it without success.

Roy, if you would, you might want to delete this for me, if you think it appropriate to do so..

[Bob Parsons Alberta]

So who`s product were you drinking?!!

[Roy Hersh]

Moses,

I have consumed the 2005 Dow and indeed, it is an Unfiltered LBV, the first time I've seen that on a label of a Dow. It still had a T-stopper though.




Dominic,

You mention Smith Woodhouse LBV's and from my recent experience with 3 distinct vintages of the LBV all said on their label, about having spent four years in wood and an additional FOUR years in bottle prior to release.





John,

If you would like to Edit your post you can do so. What was the mistake that you made that you want to remove?

[John Trombley]

Moses,

I have consumed the 2005 Dow and indeed, it is an Unfiltered LBV, the first time I've seen that on a label of a Dow. It still had a T-stopper though.




Dominic,

You mention Smith Woodhouse LBV's and from my recent experience with 3 distinct vintages of the LBV all said on their label, about having spent four years in wood and an additional FOUR years in bottle prior to release.





John,

If you would like to Edit your post you can do so. What was the mistake that you made that you want to remove?

Dear Roy,

The post is so confused with errors that I'm not even going to try to fix it. Perhaps some good discussion will result from my goofs, however, if I can swallow my pride.

By the way, I wonder if there are different labels or even different bottlings of the 2003 Dow LBV. I now have picked up a bottle of it, but I see no mention that this wine is 'unfiltered' anywhere on the label. Would it be worthwhile to send a snap of the front and back label of the bottle?

I see a mention that it was bottled in 2008, and that it is intended for immediate drinking and requires no decanting. My bottle is labeled 19.5 percent alcohol by volum

[John Trombley]

Moses,

I have consumed the 2005 Dow and indeed, it is an Unfiltered LBV, the first time I've seen that on a label of a Dow. It still had a T-stopper though.




Dominic,

You mention Smith Woodhouse LBV's and from my recent experience with 3 distinct vintages of the LBV all said on their label, about having spent four years in wood and an additional FOUR years in bottle prior to release.





John,

If you would like to Edit your post you can do so. What was the mistake that you made that you want to remove?

Dear Roy,

The post is so confused with errors that I'm not even going to try to fix it. Perhaps some good discussion will result from my goofs, however, if I can swallow my pride.

By the way, I wonder if there are different labels or even different bottlings of the 2003 Dow LBV. I now have picked up a bottle of it, but I see no mention that this wine is 'unfiltered' anywhere on the label. Would it be worthwhile to send a snap of the front and back label of the bottle?

There IS, according to CellarTracker postings, bottllings of something called Dow Late Bottled Vintage Master Blend, the last listed purchase on that forum being of the 2004 vintage. Is this something important to do with this issue? Of course, the Dow LB nonvintage is an altogether different animal, I'd say.

I will write a careful TN on this wine, probably against a Taylor 2003 LBV (isn't that from the same stable?)

[Roy Hersh]

Hi John,

Drinking and driving are a dangerous combination, even deadly at times. But drinking and posting can be far more embarrassing. I've been there and done that and often times have made an error in fact or at least, memory while sipping late night and adding some commentary to the Forum.

[John Trombley]

Taylor Fladgate 2003 Late Bottled Vintage Porto, 20 pabv, versus Dow's 2003 Late Bottled Vintage Porto, 19.5 pabv. Both have a T-cap finish. Neither have a label statement concerning filtering.

The color is blacker and carries to the edge of the Taylor, and there is a small meniscus with an impression of deep purple to within say 2 mm of the glass in the Dow. The former has a thick coating action with slow but narrow tears, while the latter has an even slower tearfall.

Quite forward blackcurrant, beef broth, and vivid sweet cherry for the Taylor nose, with an aura of high overtones; the other has plum-confectionary as the opening attack, undergirded with a definite edge of vanillin oak. I can detect the alcohol as a separate element in the Dow, and perhaps just a touch of heat on the palate; its approach is slower and shyer coming on but a bit more complex.

T: Sweet with a good balancing of juicy acid, noticeably sweeter than the average Taylor early-bottled VP, a neat licorice-dusted blackcurrant fruit. Juicy is an appropriate word for this wine: vivid and attractive, with nice middle-weight and ripe tannin extract, which would help with most of the VP-directed food matches.

D: A bit more stylistically true to its heritage when considering both sweetness (more restrained) and tannins (somewhat forward and chalky, but quite acceptable). Though it's shy there's good length.

Both of these wines will exploit the usual decanter window of 3-4 weeks and give their all; there's little to be gained by extensive cellaring, but no hurry either. For their fresh fruitiness drink now-2012. There is little to be chosen between the two as far as quality goes; they are both 88-89 pointers. I'd give the Dow's the edge for typicity, but the Taylor's has a nice intense fruitiness that is hard not to love.

[Glenn E.]

I will write a careful TN on this wine, probably against a Taylor 2003 LBV (isn't that from the same stable?)

Taylor is part of The Fladgate Partnership, along with Fonseca and Croft.

Dow is part of Symington Family Estates, along with Graham, Gould Campbell, Martinez, Quarles Harris, Smith Woodhouse, Vesuvio, and Warre.

[Eric Menchen]

Dow is part of Symington Family Estates, along with Graham, Gould Campbell, Martinez, Quarles Harris, Smith Woodhouse, Vesuvio, and Warre.

And Cockburn's now, too, correct? I know they had been producing it for a while, and I thought they recently bought the name from Beam Global.

[Glenn E.]

Dow is part of Symington Family Estates, along with Graham, Gould Campbell, Martinez, Quarles Harris, Smith Woodhouse, Vesuvio, and Warre.

And Cockburn's now, too, correct? I know they had been producing it for a while, and I thought they recently bought the name from Beam Global.

I don't know whether or not that transaction has gone through yet. It was announced in October and was expected to be completed by the end of this year, but I haven't seen anything further.

[Moses Botbol]

I don't know whether or not that transaction has gone through yet. It was announced in October and was expected to be completed by the end of this year, but I haven't seen anything further.

The last thing I saw about it online was in early October. I'd imagine any news will be news here in short order?

[John Trombley]

There I go again--talk about unstable stables! I really DO know a bit more about German wines, but I really enjoy my vintage ports, too!