Miscellaneous Port questions

[David T.]

The members of this forum have been great in helping on my previous questions. I'm hoping that you may be able to give me a few pointers again...

This week I find myself in Porto. My wife was born here, and we come to visit her family 4 or 5 times a year...in fact we have a second home here and I just love it. This time I thought that I should do more of the tourist thing - I normally just do family stuff and enjoy the food; I haven't been to a cellar for years. For example, today I went along to the Taylor's cellar...my first visit during daylight - the other two times that I went it was to the wedding receptions of some of our closest friends - if you ever have the chance to be there at night it really is special. Today I tried the Vargellas 2008 vintage, which really impressed me. In fact, drinking side-by-side with the Taylor's 2004 LBV, it really made the LBV (which is one of my preferred LBVs) taste quite coarse and spirity.

So I had some miscellaneous questions that I am bundling together - I hope that this is okay (it made more sense to have one thread rather than 1 thread per question). Please do drop a response if you can help on any of them. Here we go:

Can you suggest any good cellars to visit that might be open during these winter months?
My own port wine cellar, which we inherited last year, has been stored in the upright (which is probably find for some bottles, but I know that the vintage bottles are meant to be laid down). My question is this: if a bottle has been upright for the last 20...30...40(?) years....is it better to keep it standing up, or should I now lay it down? I'm a little worried that if the corks have dried, the port may come flooding out. Anyone has any experience with this?
Actually, maybe that is it for questions (I was sure that I had more, but I can't think what they are). I saw someone mention vinologia on this site - passed it this morning. SOunds like a great place to try a few vintage wines on the cheap in small quantities - recommended?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Glenn E.]

First let me say that I'm jealous - you get to visit Porto 4-5 times per year! It's such a wonderful city... I wish I could visit more often.

Can you suggest any good cellars to visit that might be open during these winter months?

I don't know what any of the lodges' schedules look like during the winter, but I highly recommend the Ramos Pinto lodge and museum. The museum is worth the tour by itself.

Sandeman also has a small museum in their lodge and you don't need to go on the tour in order to see it. It's just inside the entrance to the right. Their tour is also good, but once you've seen one you've sort of seen them all. The touristy tours are all very similar.

My own port wine cellar, which we inherited last year, has been stored in the upright (which is probably find for some bottles, but I know that the vintage bottles are meant to be laid down). My question is this: if a bottle has been upright for the last 20...30...40(?) years....is it better to keep it standing up, or should I now lay it down? I'm a little worried that if the corks have dried, the port may come flooding out. Anyone has any experience with this?

I don't have any experience with this problem, but my guess is that if the corks have dried out that the Port is likely oxidized and unfortunately probably no longer very good. Laying them down is probably a decent way of detecting which ones have gone bad and which ones might still be good - if they leak they're likely bad, but if not there's a decent chance that they're still good. Open the leakers first over the next months and see if any of them are still enjoyable.

A few years standing up might not kill a Port... but 20-30-40? That's not good.

I saw someone mention vinologia on this site - passed it this morning. SOunds like a great place to try a few vintage wines on the cheap in small quantities - recommended?

Vinologia is a nice place, as is the Solar do Vinho do Porto which is over near the Crystal Palace.

[Moses Botbol]

My question is this: if a bottle has been upright for the last 20...30...40(?) years....is it better to keep it standing up, or should I now lay it down? I'm a little worried that if the corks have dried, the port may come flooding out. Anyone has any experience with this?

I have some experience with this. I have a case of 1980 Ferreira that was cased, shipped, and stored upright. No one would've known that is what upright until removing the outter cardboard box. If you put them on their side, I think you'll have a ton of seepage. Most of the bottles in my case I can barely get a cork screw in it as the cork just pushes down. That being said, the quality of the wine is better than most would expect. The degree of tawny character can vary, but most of the wine from this case has been spot on and still red.

Although what you have is not ideal, that is not to say the wine won't be enjoyable if not unique too. Drink them and enjoy!

[Andy Velebil]

Lucky you to be in Oporto so often! As for lodges, I'm not sure what their hours in the winter are, but check out the following..

Graham's (ask for Raul and tell him your from FTLOP)
Dalva (as for Goncalo and also tell him your from FTLOP)
Ramos Pinto
Sandeman (great museum)
Taylors (not a great lodge comparitively, but a very good restaurant with a great view)
Quinta do Noval (not much to see since it's a store front, but a good place to taste some Ports and buy by the bottle or 1/2 bottle)
Ferreira
Calem


As for your Ports standing for so long. The only sure fire way to check is to lay them down one at a time and see what happens...if it leaks, crack open and drink up. Or if you have more than one of the same bottle you can open one to see if it been compromised or not.

[David T.]

Thank you all - help greatly appreciated. I will try some of the other cellars over the next 2 days (the deal I have with my wife is that I can spend all the time in the cellars that I like....as long as I take my 3 year old son with me! that reduces 'daddy bottle' time to a couple of hours a day at the outside).

Yesterday I lay down 48 bottles that had previously been upright for I don't know how long. 1 day later there have been no leaks that I have found, so I am optimistic. As far as I can tell they have otherwise been cellared quite well - forgotten in the dark cellar of a Porto townhouse that is cool, dark and moist. Fingers crossed that they are all in good condition! I will continue to check over the next few days.

One thing that I did discover, to my surprise, is that at least 2 of the bottles of Ramos Pinto 1975 contain a clear liquid! The other vintages are all dark and opaque, but the '75 looks almost like a white port (with plenty of sediment). Has anyone come across anything similar? Is it possible for a port to go clear and yet still maintain its quality? A quick scan for tasting notes on RP '75 hasn't thrown up anything. I will check the other bottles of '75 once I have located them.