Dark bottles

[Monique Heinemans.]

Maybe a silly question, but why are some bottles (like the Niepoort VP 1991) slighly transparant?
For me it's no problem, I store them in my dark cellar where they catch no light and I can see through the glass which makes the decanting more easy, but is there a plausible reason?

Thanks, Monique.

[Roy Hersh]

I assume it is a less expensive bottle!?!?!?

Maybe they had bottles left over from their table wines? We'd have to ask Dirk to be sure. If nobody here has a better explanation, we could do that.

[Monique Heinemans.]

Hello Roy,

Maybe you could ask him sometimes, the bottles are dark green and slighly transparant.
Bought them for € 25 some years ago.

Regards, Monique.

[Tom Archer]

Monique,

I think the IVDP regulations stipulate simply that vintage port is required to be bottled in dark glass; but dark glass comes in a variety of hues, and it may be brown, black, or green. I don't think the colour or intensity makes much odds as far as price is concerned.

Dark glass certainly protects against light damage, but totally opaque glass is one of my personal hates, as it prevents one from checking the level of the wine.

When buying old vintage port, poor levels are a good indicator of poor storage conditions; and when selecting a bottle for consumption, it is good practice to observe the principal of 'survival of the fittest' and drink one's most ullaged bottles first. Some corks maintain a seal much better than others, and it is therefore wise to pick off the weaklings.

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Dark glass certainly protects against light damage, but totally opaque glass is one of my personal hates, as it prevents one from checking the level of the wine.

I am with To on that one. I like to be able to see the port in the bottle.

[Andy Velebil]

Dark bottles offer the best protection from light damage. I recall a study that Budweiser did regarding glass color and it's effect on beer, and being amazed at the difference in the glass color made even in a very short amount of time. That said I don't like them so dark that I can't see into them with a flashlight.

[Tom Archer]

I can't see into them with a flashlight

I've done several experiments to establish the best way of viewing levels when the glass is very dark, but not totally opaque.

To date I have found the best way is to stand in a room (my cellar) with just one 40w filiament bulb turned on. The bulb needs to be of the clear glass type, not frosted.

Hold the neck of the bottle quite close to the bulb, and with one eye closed, look to to see the incandescent filiament shining through the glass; then shake the bottle a little to see the motion of the wine obscure the filiament, and reveal its level.

If that doesn't work, try rotating the bottle a little - sometimes you can see through from one perspective, but not another.

- But it's so much easier if a simple torch (flashlight) is all that's required!

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

I can't see into them with a flashlight

I've done several experiments to establish the best way of viewing levels when the glass is very dark, but not totally opaque.

To date I have found the best way is to stand in a room (my cellar) with just one 40w filiament bulb turned on. The bulb needs to be of the clear glass type, not frosted.

Hold the neck of the bottle quite close to the bulb, and with one eye closed, look to to see the incandescent filiament shining through the glass; then shake the bottle a little to see the motion of the wine obscure the filiament, and reveal its level.

If that doesn't work, try rotating the bottle a little - sometimes you can see through from one perspective, but not another.

- But it's so much easier if a simple torch (flashlight) is all that's required!

Tom

Good to know. Now I must go buy a regular lightbulb as all mine are now the new energy efficient kind.

[Moses Botbol]

Good to know. Now I must go buy a regular lightbulb as all mine are now the new energy efficient kind.

I hate the new bulbs. What do you do with them when it's time to throw them away? What do you do when they break? With all the poisonous mercury gas in them and added pieces of material; I don't see what the real advantage is.

[Glenn E.]

Good to know. Now I must go buy a regular lightbulb as all mine are now the new energy efficient kind.

I hate the new bulbs. What do you do with them when it's time to throw them away? What do you do when they break? With all the poisonous mercury gas in them and added pieces of material; I don't see what the real advantage is.

I hate the new ones too. The biggest argument against incandescent as I understand it is that most of the energy is "wasted" as heat. Hey, guess what? I have to heat my house most of the year anyway, so an incandescent's heat isn't wasted for me! Grr.

[Eric Menchen]

I hate the new ones too. The biggest argument against incandescent as I understand it is that most of the energy is "wasted" as heat. Hey, guess what? I have to heat my house most of the year anyway, so an incandescent's heat isn't wasted for me! Grr.

My feelings exactly. I gladly put CF bulbs outside our house, where the heat would be wasted. Inside? It's really not a waste. We only run our A/C a few weeks to one month in the summer, and even then it might come on only about four hours a day. Guess what? This is when the sun is shining and hardly any light bulbs are on. We heat 6+ months a year, and the most lights are on when it is dark and cold. I don't think all the claims about energy efficiency of new bulbs take this into account.

Sorry for the thread drift.

[Peter W. Meek]

New CF bulbs? I like 'em. My life is a constant battle AGAINST heat. I can't wait until the new LED bulbs get better and cheaper.

Back on topic: I generally carry a small (single AA battery) LED flashlight which is very bright in my shirt pocket. About $10 from several places. (Ask.) I buy them 10 at a time, as I seem to give them away to any CYT who shows an interest. (I haven't replaced a battery yet!) (Let me make a suggestion: the first one you give away had better be to your SO! Second or third just doesn't cut it. I know.)

Really back on topic: I use it for port mostly: checking levels in dark bottles and for color in the glass. It is a very white light, so you need to get used to it if you have been checking edge-color with incandescent lighting.

[Andy Velebil]

I have some very high powered flashlights at work and even those won't penetrate some Port bottles. Luckily that is only a small few, as most producers use a very dark bottle but not one that is totally opaque.

[Tom Archer]

Luckily that is only a small few, as most producers use a very dark bottle but not one that is totally opaque.

The worst year for totally opaque bottles seems to be 1985, since when the practice appears to have been in decline; but as most of my young bottles are still tucked up in their owc's, I'm not well placed to comment on the most recent vintages.

- Did any of the big names use totally opaque glass for their 2007's?

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

- Did any of the big names use totally opaque glass for their 2007's?

Tom

off the top of my head I don't recall seeing any that were totally opaque, but since they were so young I wasn't paying as close attention to them as I would with an older bottle so there may have been.

[Eric Menchen]

- Did any of the big names use totally opaque glass for their 2007's?

Maybe I need brighter light, but I just checked Quinta do Noval and Warre's and couldn't see a thing in those bottles.

[Andy Velebil]

- Did any of the big names use totally opaque glass for their 2007's?

Maybe I need brighter light, but I just checked Quinta do Noval and Warre's and couldn't see a thing in those bottles.

Just checked my 2007 Noval VP and while dark I had no problem seeing into the neck with a flashlight.

[Peter W. Meek]

The LED flashlight I was talking about is a 1-Watt. Bright enough that if you accidentally look directly into the beam for a fraction of a second, you won't see anything but spots for a few minutes.

Having owned a lot of Mag-lights and Mini-mags, I can say there is NO comparison for beam intensity, at least up close. A Mag-Light may illuminate a wall at 100' better, but its beam is spread over 3 or 4 square inches at the face of the light. A 1-watt focused LED beam is maybe .1" in diameter. All that light is compressed into an area of 1/400th of the Mag-light beam.

I admit, it can't punch through ANY glass, but it would have to be pretty dark that you couldn't see some gleam.

[Tom Archer]

Having owned a lot of Mag-lights and Mini-mags, I can say there is NO comparison for beam intensity, at least up close. A Mag-Light may illuminate a wall at 100' better, but its beam is spread over 3 or 4 square inches at the face of the light. A 1-watt focused LED beam is maybe .1" in diameter. All that light is compressed into an area of 1/400th of the Mag-light beam.

I admit, it can't punch through ANY glass, but it would have to be pretty dark that you couldn't see some gleam.

I experimented with a variety of focused light sources, including a laser; and whilst they do work, I found it too easy to accidentally dazzle myself in the process..

The advantage of the filiament bulb is that you get a fine line of light instead of a spot, which makes it easier to identify the level.

Tom