For The Love Of Port

I came across this online. What do you think?

http://winesave.com/

My thoughts? (posted while a bit drunk)

Well, it's Argon (one of the noble gasses) so it cannot react with any other chemical. It should not impart any taste to the wine. It still may allow aromatics to escape from the wine (and mix with the Argon to escape from the bottle when reopened).

Noble gasses have fully populated outer electron shells so it is almost impossible for them to react chemically. They include: helium (He), neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon (Xe), and the radioactive gas radon (Rn).

Argon is the commonest noble gas and third commonest gas of any kind (after Nitrogen and Oxygen) in the atmosphere (at just under 1%) so it should be the cheapest noble gas.

I thought there were other purveyors using Argon for wine preservation, although most use nitrogen or carbon dioxide, both of which could possibly react with elements of the wine.

$40 per can seems a bit high. I expect you can buy Argon (a shielding gas used for Inert Gas Shielded Welding, similar to heli-arc) in 100 pound cylinders from a welding shop for about the same price as 3 or 4 ounces from these folks (plus tank rental/purchase). Might not be food grade, but I bet there is nothing in it that would hurt you OR the wine. Preserve twenty or thirty thousand bottles for the same price.

Helium is another noble gas; it is used more commonly in welding as a shielding gas, so it might be a bit cheaper, and might work just as well. You could get a can of helium from a novelty balloon place and try it as a wine preservative. Helium is very light; you would have to get the cork back in fairly quickly. (When drunk on port, you can use Helium, at about .18 g/L, to make your voice sound like Donald Duck, which is an added bonus. Argon is too heavy at about 1.7 g/L vs air at 1.2 g/L; it might even make your voice sound a tiny bit lower. )

While Radon is probably difficult to obtain commercially, it is probably also not a good candidate for wine preservation, as it is radioactive, and a known carcinogen. (At 9.3 g/L it might also make your voice quite a bit lower, but the effect is probably not worth the risk.)

What's different about this vs all the other gas wine products that have been around 20 years? I think the gas kills the aromatic or they just die on their own no matter what is done.

A bottle with a spring bottom that keeps the wine at the cork as it depletes would be a cool idea.

Moses Botbol wrote:What's different about this vs all the other gas wine products that have been around 20 years? I think the gas kills the aromatic or they just die on their own no matter what is done.

Nitrogen or CO2 might react with the aromatics and change them, although Nitrogen is fairly unreactive as a molecular gas. Argon is a bit more expensive, so it is less common and you may not happen to have tried it.

Even with a completely unreactive gas like Argon anything with a vapor-pressure greater than zero (aromatics) will partially evaporate into the gas. I really wouldn't expect this to make a LOT of difference beyond a slight weakening of the intensity.

The Oxygen that dissolves into the wine during any open-time will certainly continue to react with anything it can. Most ports seem to need some reaction with Oxygen (decant time), so It is difficult to see how to let exactly the right amount of Oxygen into the wine without getting so much in that the wine eventually loses quality. Maybe opening or decanting for some short length of time and then recorking or gassing/recorking until all the Oxygen has time to react, and THEN tasting. (A LOT of experimenting!)

Have you considered that some of the difference experienced with gassing port MAY be due to the different circumstances of the tasting. The first experience is carefully done, after carefully planning, decanting and waiting. The anticipation may be part of the experience. The next day or the next week is more like, "time to finish this off" so maybe the mental environment is not quite what it was when the bottle was first tasted.

Moses Botbol wrote:A bottle with a spring bottom that keeps the wine at the cork as it depletes would be a cool idea.

There IS something like this. It's called bag-wine.

Peter W. Meek wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:A bottle with a spring bottom that keeps the wine at the cork as it depletes would be a cool idea.

There IS something like this. It's called bag-wine.

How about disposable wine bags that one would decant a bottle into? Is there such a thing?

Moses Botbol wrote:

Peter W. Meek wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:A bottle with a spring bottom that keeps the wine at the cork as it depletes would be a cool idea.

There IS something like this. It's called bag-wine.

How about disposable wine bags that one would decant a bottle into? Is there such a thing?

Why not reusable? Just make 'em out of slightly sturdier material so that they could be used over and over. They need not even be transparent, though a see-through section near the spigot would be useful for filling right to the brim.

Come to think of it... these already exist.

Glenn E. wrote:Come to think of it... these already exist.

Jeepin' Whillikers! They want $220 for a digital image of that Bota. I'll sell you an image like that for a dime. (Just as soon as I empty it.)

Here you go: http://www.platypreserve.com/
I bought one for backpacking, hut trips, etc.; not as a general wine preservation option.

Might not be food grade, but I bet there is nothing in it that would hurt you OR the wine.

I don't know about argon, but for oxygen, medical grade is actually the lowest quality compared to aviation and industrial. There's no harm if you inhale a little CO2 or nitrogen or most other things; but moisture is bad in an airplane system and impurities can just ruin a weld or other industrial application. As a practical matter, most suppliers just provide the highest grade because it isn't worth the cost to deal with them separately.

Peter W. Meek wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:What's different about this vs all the other gas wine products that have been around 20 years? I think the gas kills the aromatic or they just die on their own no matter what is done.

Even with a completely unreactive gas like Argon anything with a vapor-pressure greater than zero (aromatics) will partially evaporate into the gas. I really wouldn't expect this to make a LOT of difference beyond a slight weakening of the intensity.

even if the vapour pressure is "zero" (or I assume you mean the slightly higher than atmospheric pressure inthe bottle), the argon would create an "atmosphere" and you would see diffusion of aromatic components, alcohol and water in small amounts into the argon and argon (hopefully tasteless I assume) into the wine. It doesn't need to react, but it will diffuse to an equilibrium point even without causing any reaction. But your right its probably better than the alternatives of non noble gases...

Argon is what almost all wineries use on bottling lines during the bottling process. They'll sparge the empty bottles just prior to filling them to displace the oxygen in the bottle. From my limited understanding, Argon was only available in larger canisters and was very expensive, hence why no one had used it in a small container like this one. I assume it's come down in price to make it more appealing for this type of application.

I've tried many others type of can preservation systems and all have left a residual aroma/flavor in the wine, which is why I stopped using them many years ago. But I've waited a long time for someone to come out with a small can application of Argon, so I will probably get one to try it out.