Emulating Lafite

[john rk]

Roy

What is being done by the port industry to build a following in China? It strikes me that having lived in Asia for some time in my life that, the chinese do like sweet wines, but we do not see a high degree of interest in port as you see with
bordeaux ? Is this indicative of insufficient marketing by the industry, because if so, we need to stimulate them to ramp up their efforts in this regard. All you need are a few of the notable port families to host banquets in Beijing and Shanghai, inviting the respective mayors, local politicians, film folk, and known collectors, and we could have a bonanza on our hands...

yours hopefully,

John

[Roy Hersh]

Be careful what you wish for!

I can assure you that numerous large and mid-sized Port and SQVP producers have been to China/HK to promote Port and try to create inroads there. I was discussing this with a few producers last week up in Vancouver, as many from HK settled there when Hong Kong reverted from British rule in 1997. I was told that trips have been fruitful, but that finding importers and distributors that understand the category is a challenge and while the market is open to Port, they will have to be taught that beyond big names in Bordeaux and Burgundy (with a smattering of upscale Australian and Napa products) Port is one of the world's great wines too and this will take some time.

Taylor's Scion sold very well in China and other inroads have been made by others too, including Douro wine specialists, but it is going to take the better part of a decade or more before China becomes involved with Port in a more "significant" way. It is a matter of watering the seeds.

Moreover, with the population base and number of wine consumers already in China ... many just used to average swill produced by their own winemakers (China's wine industry is still in its infancy and for the most part there are very few quality wines produced there) it is the serious collectors and gift givers who are already looking to Port as a bargain. IF that number increases dramatically, the price you pay for Port in the EU and No. America would go up dramatically. Good for the under-paid growers in the Douro and certainly good for the Port companies, but not so much for consumers elsewhere.

[Lamont Huxley]

IF that number increases dramatically, the price you pay for Port in the EU and No. America would go up dramatically. Good for the under-paid growers in the Douro and certainly good for the Port companies, but not so much for consumers elsewhere.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read this post. I'm all for more people being turned on to the wonders of port, but on the other hand I would hate to be priced out of my most beloved hobby...

[Jim R.]

I express grave concern over the likelihood of paying $ 200 to $ 300 per bottle for new vintage port if China lands with both feet of purchasing power! Would force me to disregard all new ports and just drink from my cellar. Not a horrible problem but I like variety.

[Glenn E.]

I asked Adrian Bridge about this at the Celebration of Port dinner at the Salish Lodge last week, and he said that a) getting the Chinese to like and understand Port is very difficult, and b) the Chinese market isn't as big as you think.

In regard to the first, he explained that when they're teaching the Chinese about Port the first thing they have to say is "this is a grape wine." Unless it's Lafite or some other big brand name that they recognize, "wine" to the Chinese means rice wine. So that's a rather huge hurdle. Once past that hurdle you have to deal with palate differences - the Chinese in general just don't appreciate Port's big, heavy, and sweet style. They can learn to like it, but his point was that they have to learn to like it.

In regard to the second, he pointed out that 1.8 billion people is a gross exaggeration of the Chinese market. For the median income in China, a bottle of Taylor LBV is a month's wages. He said that their estimate of the potential market in China, at least as things stand today, is somewhere around 60 million. Only 10% of the population can even afford basic Port, and really only 1/3 of those are potential buyers. And that's total Port buyers, not just VP buyers. In other words, roughly the same size as (or even slightly smaller than) the potential US market. He said that with China's emergence as an economic power those numbers could easily change, but he suspected that would be at least a generation away.

[Jeff G.]

I asked Adrian Bridge about this at the Celebration of Port dinner at the Salish Lodge last week, and he said that a) getting the Chinese to like and understand Port is very difficult, and b) the Chinese market isn't as big as you think.

In regard to the first, he explained that when they're teaching the Chinese about Port the first thing they have to say is "this is a grape wine." Unless it's Lafite or some other big brand name that they recognize, "wine" to the Chinese means rice wine. So that's a rather huge hurdle. Once past that hurdle you have to deal with palate differences - the Chinese in general just don't appreciate Port's big, heavy, and sweet style. They can learn to like it, but his point was that they have to learn to like it.

In regard to the second, he pointed out that 1.8 billion people is a gross exaggeration of the Chinese market. For the median income in China, a bottle of Taylor LBV is a month's wages. He said that their estimate of the potential market in China, at least as things stand today, is somewhere around 60 million. Only 10% of the population can even afford basic Port, and really only 1/3 of those are potential buyers. And that's total Port buyers, not just VP buyers. In other words, roughly the same size as (or even slightly smaller than) the potential US market. He said that with China's emergence as an economic power those numbers could easily change, but he suspected that would be at least a generation away.

not only rice wine, but hot rice wine that you chug to show off your manliness at business luncheons.

i agree about a generation away. I'd say my chinese counterparts as they grow more prosperous, look to us in the US here to see whats hot, and you don't hear "port"

Though, I'm chinese and I drink port, I'll happily be Adrians market for Fonseca any time

[Roy Hersh]

Jeff,

Do you have any other Chinese friends, whether Chinese Americans or otherwise, that appreciate Port?

I've also heard that the Chinese don't like the sweet flavors, but I can think of lots of Chinese food and some desserts that are sweet, so I've never quite understood this. What's your take on the flavor profile and at least a generalization of the Chinese palate (in China) if you are aware of that?

Thanks!

[Jeff G.]

My parents are doctors and are pretty well established in their communities so alot of their friends are within hte medical professional as well are starting to get into wine and will occassionally raid my stash.

Sweet wines is one they certainly go for. My Zind humbrects, Donnhoffs and Krachers are usually always the first to go missing.

In terms of the dry reds, they really mostly go by name and if not, whenever my parents have a party, people bring over magnums of some Austrailian tailed creature.

Was at a chinese restaurant and the table sitting across from me basically had a bottle of 1988 Lafite sitting there. The ladies at the table had a few sips and left the rest in those chinese restaurant water glasses. Only the host was drinking it.

When I do open port, those who enjoy it tell me they think it's too much like cough syrup, I guess it's more of an acidity they might be looking more for.

I have another friend that came from hong kong and he certainly enjoys his fine port, but he'll only buy bordeaux's =)

I think what I was trying to ramble about is that everything is personal palate and the only way to truly emulate lafite, is to figure out how to make it the "hot" thing to drink. (like the ideas at serving it at a bar mixed with ginger ale)

Dropping a note to some of the famous cocktail mixing bars here in NY might go a long way for the ruby's to catch on again.