1977 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port

[David Spriggs]

TN: 1977 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port:

From a typical bottle (at least the ones I've seen over the years) - corroding capsule, a slight leaker. Still, an outstanding fill level! This was from a bottle imported from the UK (originally imported to Denmark and then purchased from Farr Vintners in the UK) and looks better than the ones I bought here in the US 15 years ago from Hi-time Liquor. Decanted, and then tasted. Color - A clear dark ruby color. Not opaque as it was when it was young. An amazing nose - spice notes really come forward. A little spirity. On entry, the taste is very fruity, high toned... yes -- it's spirity here too. Nice finish, just a touch of heat. Decanted back into the bottle (after washing and drying the bottle).

Next day. Wow! HUGE difference! The spirity nose has gone away and the wine is stupendous! Just about everything I look for in a great vintage port - spice, friut, earth - everyting. Really inviting. Every sniff brings out something new. On entry it very big and forward. The mouthfeel is thick and massive. This thing is full bodied and has a long, long finish with just a hint of tannins. It's really surprising how much it's changed in 24 hours. The wine looks almost like a Pinot in its color, but is just loaded with flavor. After about 3-4 days the wine starts to fade. It's still good, but not quite as good.

So the conclusion --- this needs to be opened in advance and given time to breathe. It's just entering its plateau of maturity. A really satisfying Port. The corks on all the ones that I've opened are starting to die a slow death, so these will not last for 50 years in the cellar, but they wil hand in there for at least 10 more years. I'll just have to keep my eye on them on a bottle by bottle basis. My experience is that many 1977 have problem corks (weevil damage, poor quality corks). My UK bottles are better than the ones I bought in the US, so I'll be drinking the US purchased bottles up!

I'll give this port 95 points.


-Dave-

[Roy Hersh]

Hi David,


I am sure you do realize that there is no difference between UK and US bottles of 1977 Taylor VP. All of them were originally bottled in Vila Nova de Gaia, Portugal. NONE were bottled in the UK.

Thanks for the great tasting note. I have had this wine on a number of occasions in the past few years. I have had it from 750 as well as magnum. I love this wine and we clearly get a different read but it also sounds as if your bottles had some storage issues along the way. There is no reason for leakage in this wine and I have NO IDEA what you are speaking about when it comes to "weevils" in the 1977 corks. I have not had the issues with corks in my Taylor '77s or any other Shipper's VP from this vintage. Where did you get this idea?

I also disagree that this wine will not last 50 years. In fact, although it may show well today, there is nothing really mature about this wine today. The opacity may be gone but that really is not a sign of maturity, IMO.

Here is a tasting note by Eric LeVine at one of my Port tastings from 2004:

1977 Taylor Porto - Portugal, Douro, Porto
On describing this to the other attendees, I popped out with "Oh man, this just rocks!" This actually had the lightest color by far in the flight, but that was a red herring. The nose was quite medicinal and showed some spirit. The palate was utterly seamless with figs, dates, raisins, fruitcake, maple syrup, molasses, and treacle yet with a very silky and vibrant texture. The finish is luscious and long with so much life and elegance. This is the best port I have ever tasted. (97 pts.)


Although we clearly have differences of opinion on this wine, I am very pleased you have posted your tasting note and I hope you have the chance to have a bottle from perfect storage.

[David Spriggs]

Of course all 1977 ports were bottle in portugal. When I'm speaking of UK and US I just talking about where I sourced the wine from. Mine might have had storage issues -- who knows? Probably would be my answer. By the time I bought the ones in the US the wine was already about 15 years old. The ones from the UK went to Denmark, then the UK, then the US. So as far as the complete provenence goes - who knows? Looking at the Taylor corks, they are certainly long enough (one of the longest corks made), but the corks clearly have flaws. I'm sure that from solidly corked bottles - lasting many, many years is not an issue. As far as mine, if they are leaking I'm going to drink them sooner. So, yes, this tasting note is not from a perfect bottle. Even the worst of these are not horrible leakers, they still have great fill levels. And I have many bottles that show no signs of seepage at all. But would I open those now? No way! My 10 year lifetime is based on the bad cork of this example, not from pristine bottles.

As far as poor corks in 1977's, I've seen my fair share. The weevils are not just an idea of mine. I have opened cases and cases of 1977 Warres and alll of them had weevil damaged corks. Some bottles you can take off the capsule and you can see the dead weevils sitting on top of the cork! On others, you can see the holes in the cork after you pull it out (if you can get it out in one piece :) . If you split the cork open you can see the weevils inside. I've only seen this on 1977 Warres, but I have had many 1977s and many have varying quality corks. 1977 Sandeman comes to mind as well for highly variable corks also. That's just my experience. But, they are 30 year old wines, and who knows where they've been their whole lives?

As far as maturity - it depends on what you consider mature. I like my port on the younger side (but not too young), and I think this one is just starting to become mature (ok -- drinkable then). It's got just the slightest hint of bricking in the rim and the tannins are almost completely resolved. Also, it's loaded with secondary and tertiery notes in the bouquet. That's how I define some level of maturity. Of course I've had some recently that were fairly closed on the nose and seems a little more reserved. So would I call this an old wine? Not at all. It a very lively wine, but certainly not youthful.

As I said in my note, this is a fantastic wine. I agree with Eric's note. That pretty much matches the wine I tasted. I'm pretty stingy score-wise, so this is about as high as I rate a wine. Would I buy this wine again? Absolutely! Wonderful stuff! Would I buy more. Yes! I'm always looking for more 1977 Taylor.

-Dave-

[David Spriggs]

Oh... one more interesting issue is that some of my bottles have the the tax stamp over the capsule and others have the tax stamp under the capsule. Why would they do this? I would assume that they bottled all of the ports at the same time and there would be no differences in the bottling procedure. Strange.


Do any of your 1977 Taylors have corroding capsules? I think that most of mine show some level of corrosion. Just curious.


-Dave-

[mwaters]

what are weevils? A bug I assume.

[David Spriggs]

what are weevils? A bug I assume.

Yes, it's a kind of beetle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weevil

There is a a discussion of cork beetles over on eBob here: http://fora.erobertparker.com/ubb/ultim ... 21/15.html

-Dave-

[Roy Hersh]

David writes:
As far as poor corks in 1977's, I've seen my fair share. The weevils are not just an idea of mine. I have opened cases and cases of 1977 Warres and alll of them had weevil damaged corks.


Hmmmm. You just happened to pick the single VP that I have personally consumed the most of in my life. Between 1989 and 1996 (before I moved away from No. VA) I consumed more bottles of this wine, than I care to elaborate on, as I bought in @ $29 and it was my every day house VP for years. I have never once seen a bad cork in any single bottle. All I am meaning to say by this, is that the "weevil issue" you mention, is not endemic to the Warre's 1977 VP, on an across the board basis. BTW, I don't own a single bottle of '77 Sandeman, so I can't comment, although I have tasted it on several occasions.

As far as corroding capsules on the '77, I just checked and none of mine have that issue. I do have a few eroded capsules though on some of my 1970s, but that is probably a totally different issue.

By the way, I am glad you responded about the US vs. UK point, although I DID know what you meant. But from your response, I have more insight into the depth of your passion and knowledge on Port and am looking forward to sharing some very fine Ports together in October in Portugal!

[xxxMonique Heinemans]

I've red the thread on eBob also, and it might be mine imperfect understanding of the Englisch language, but isn't it possible Roy, that one person has the weevil in his '77 VP and the other hasn't?

Do I understand it well that when you have one bottle affected, and humidity and temperature are just right for the beetle, you can have more bottles infected. Do they eat themselves into a cork?

Why does this appear on older vintages?

[David Spriggs]

Yes, the weevils eat into the cork. After the disussion here, I am convinced that my weevil invested corks probably happened somewhere along the delivery chain, and that it is not typical. So, yes, it's likely that one person might have weevil infested corks and even more likely that the corks are fine. I suspect that someone in delivery chain noticed the cork infestation and just dumped all of those wines on the market to get rid of them as soon a possible. This was back in the early 1990's.

-Dave-

[Roy Hersh]

Dave and Monique,

I concur. I think it is very possible for one person to have a bad batch of evil weevil devils in their corks and even in their cellar.

Beware the evil weevil! :twisted:

[KenBirman]

I've drunk my share of the 77 Taylor -- perhaps a case of this wine -- and while I've had MANY corks disintegrate when opening the bottle, I'm certain that I've never seen this or any other 77 (Dow... Fonseca... Grahams... a few others too) exhibit signs of insect damage.

I suspect that some people haven't had much experience with port and don't understand how hard the bottles can be to open. It took me a while to realize that I needed an ah-so. And a while longer to learn that even an ah-so isn't foolproof! (I find that while a screwpull rips these corks to shreds, an ah-so might just push the cork right into the bottle).

Prayer appears to help. One needs to beg the gods of oporto to look favorably upon one's ah-so... But weevils are just an excuse for inept technique!

[David Spriggs]

It true, I've only seen insect damage in 1977 Warre's. No other 1977s that I have had have been affected this way.

The Ah-so is the trick! Use just about anything else and you just get chunks of cork. I remeber my cousin using a cork remover that has a needle and forces the cork out by pressurizing the bottle. One old port exploded! That was fun

Actually, as far as 1977 Taylor goes, I've been lucky. Most of the corks hold together. Maybe one corner of the cork will drop away, but I've been able to get the whole thing out pretty easily. Maybe my prayers are working!

-Dave-

[Richard Henderson]

The 77 Taylor is one of my all time favorite ports. ( I do hope I included it in my top 10 on another thread on this bb!)

I drank a bottle with Deryk Fellingham, a dear friend and former Collector of the London Port in HM Customs when he was a house guest of ours here in Fort Worth in the early 90's. Deryk died all too young at age 59, may he RIP.

I have kept that bottle and cork.

[Ronald Wortel]

I've had a bottle of Gould Campbell '77 with weevil damage (there is a thread on it on the WS board, but I'm too lazy to provide a link just now... ), but that's the only time I've ever come across it. I wouldn't think it's a problem related to '77's.

The '77 Taylor's is still a young monster. One of the very best ports I've tasted!

[Frederick Blais]

I've opened a Taylor 77 last week for my friend's birthday. My notes are really similar to those provide by Roy, but maybe my rathing would be around 93.

Again had slightly leak, it was decanted 6 hours prior to drink it.
It is true that the nose is a bit closed at first but display magnificient complexity, same thing in mouth with an explosion of flavours typical to Taylor but without the grip this time, perfect balance but not a deep and powerful as the 1970.

I have another bottle that did not leak, so I'll keep it for 10 years or more, as Roy say, it as reach its maturity but the wine is so balance right now that its hard to imagine that it can fall appart soon.

I gave it 17.5 from my own rating system.

[Steven Kooij]

Taylor '77- Yum! 8)

I've got two corks with weevil damage I've saved; I'll try to take some close-up pictures later this week and post them. They're from a GC '77 and a Taylor '80.

[Andy Velebil]

Steve, when you get a chance I'd love to see the pics of the weevil damage as I have never encountered the little bugs before. Thanks

[smaug]

I don't know if they have any more, but PremierCru had this for $125 per bottle a few weeks back.

[Roy Hersh]

I brought back this thread as the first post, by David Spriggs ... lends credence to what Uncle Tom was alluding to and I figured it would be good to see that this is not a unique situation that Tom has found in his cellar. I don't believe it is endemic, but we'll see what others have to say.

[David Spriggs]

This thread will never die!

-Dave-