Hello new here , price of port ?

[tom egleston]

Hello I have been given a bottle of port and I would like to find out a price on it the name - Garrafeira 1912 , would really appreciate if you guys could help many thanks.

[Glenn E.]

Hi Tom, welcome to FTLOP!

Unfortunately what you've given us is not the name of the Port. Garrafeira means a couple of different things, with two being most likely. First, it can simply mean "bottled" which would indicated that your Port is a 1912 bottling. Second, it is a style of Port in-between VP and Tawny, but those are pretty rare.

If you could post a picture of the bottle and a close-up of the label we might be able to provide you with better help!

[tom egleston]

[Eric Menchen]

Now that is an interesting find. What does the line under "Reserva 1912" say?

[Glenn E.]

I think I can make out "... Vinicola do Norte de Portugal" on one line with "Gaia - Porto" on the line below that.

The word that precedes Vinicola looks like it could be Companhia, so possibly Real Compania Vinicola? aka Royal Oporto?

The text in the brown band at the bottom of the label could be important, too, if you could transcribe that for us.

[tom egleston]

Real companhia vinicola do norte de portugal gaia - porto , so has anyone got an idea to how much its worth ?

[tom egleston]

O vinho do porto e um vinho natural sujeito a criar deposito com a idade
recomenda-se que seja servido com o cuidado indispensavel para nao lurvar.

That's the part in the brown bar at the bottom its hard for even me to work out as its so small.

[Glenn E.]

Here in the US it could be worth anything from $350 to $800. Your prices over there in the UK are usually lower, though.

I'll poke a couple of guys from London and see if they have any better idea.

[Eric Menchen]

O vinho do porto e um vinho natural sujeito a criar deposito com a idade
recomenda-se que seja servido com o cuidado indispensavel para nao lurvar.

So it isn't filtered, and doesn't sound like a colheita. There's a bit of 1912 colheita around, but not much VP.

[tom egleston]

so has anyone got a price or know of anyone who would buy it lol ?

[Andy Velebil]

Here in the US it could be worth anything from $350 to $800. Your prices over there in the UK are usually lower, though.

I'll poke a couple of guys from London and see if they have any better idea.

UK prices for Colheita's, which this most likely is, are FAR lower than what they command here in the States since the UK isn't a big consumer of this type of Port. I'm sure some of the UK guys will eventually chime in with average prices there for something like this. But don't be shocked if it's far less than what you may have originally thought.

As for the bottle...based on the wording and "Reserva" on the label, the Selo (strip over the top) which if this was a Vintage Port wouldn't have as it would have been bottled before the IVP (now the IVDP) was formed. The Selo being the old style which stopped being used circa very early 1970's. If this was an original import to the UK, which hates the word Colheita to be used on labels and preferred terms such as "reserve." Based on all that I would guess it is just a 1912 Colheita bottled sometime prior to the early 70's.

[Eric Menchen]

Colheita's, which this most likely is

Even though the label says it is likely to throw a sediment with age?

[Andy Velebil]

Colheita's, which this most likely is

Even though the label says it is likely to throw a sediment with age?

Yes, I've seen a similar thing on other older Colheita labels. As long as it wasn't heavily filtered or cold stabilized, even a Colheita will eventually develop some sediment. How much it develops would depend on many factors.

[Glenn E.]

Colheita's, which this most likely is

Even though the label says it is likely to throw a sediment with age?

Yes, I've seen a similar thing on other older Colheita labels. As long as it wasn't heavily filtered or cold stabilized, even a Colheita will eventually develop some sediment. How much it develops would depend on many factors.

I've had bottles of 40-yr old Tawnies throw sediment before. Not the thick crumbly stuff like an old VP, but still sediment. It's typically a very fine, thin, and light sediment that stirs up easily and can make the Port cloudy if disturbed.

[Eric Menchen]

I've had bottles of 40-yr old Tawnies throw sediment before. Not the thick crumbly stuff like an old VP, but still sediment. It's typically a very fine, thin, and light sediment that stirs up easily and can make the Port cloudy if disturbed.

I've seen that sediment too, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned on a tawny or colheita bottle.

[Rob C.]

This is certainly intriguing, though I imagine many collectors would regard this as more of an "oddity" than a sought-after classic.

That said, I'm sure it has some value - a good looking bottle, a bit of mystery as to what it actually is, and the sheer age is impressive (both of the wine inside and, although somewhat younger, the bottle). Plus, of course, 2012 will be the 100 year anniversary of the harvest that produced it.

Since you sound like you would prefer to sell it rather than drink it, you should try (if possible) to find out what you can about the bottle's provenance (where it came from, where it has been stored, etc.). Being able to establish that this has been properly stored over the decades would help boost its value to a buyer (though, conversely, finding out that it had been sitting in a drinks cabinet by the fireplace for 20 years would not help!).

If you don't receive an offer here, I think you have three options:

- i would imagine your best bet would be to put it into a regional fine wine auction - somewhere like Straker Chadwick, though others will have a better idea which auction house would be best (considering your location) and whether it would be worth holding on to it until early 2012 (when the 100-yr market will be more active)

- the other route would be to send a few emails out to the various online port/wine merchants who specialise in anniversary gifts (try googling eg: "anniversary port", which brings up a few of them)

- Ebay might also work, though more of a gamble i would have thought (unless you have a price in mind and are willing to stick a reserve on it and let it roll if unsold).

Value? Very difficult. Pure guess - £150 to £200 to the right person who is willing to take a chance? Perhaps a bit more? But not as much if i were buying!

Best of luck

Rob

[Derek T.]

Tom,

I entirely agree with Rob C on this one.

I have tasted the 1917 of this port from an almost identical bottle/label and it is definitely a Colheita rather than a vintage port. Royal Oporto, which is what this is, traditionally used the word Garafeira to describe their Colheita ports, even before the word Colheita was in common use as an official style.

This bottle has a very limited audience in the UK and, as Rob says, is more of a curiosity than an object of real interest and desire to the average port collector. If you are planning a holiday to the USA soon perhaps you could try to sell it there to pay for your flight. If you sell it in the UK you can expect to recover the cost of a couple of good nights out on the town.

Alternatively, you could join us at a port tasting in London and bring this along as your contribution to the evening

Derek

[Tom Archer]

Tom,

Just to clarify some of the jargon that may have left you a bit confused:

This is a tawny port (that is to say, a port that has been aged in wood for many years before being bottled) from a single vintage, in this case 1912; and then bottled with little or no filtration, thereby making it liable to throw a deposit in the bottle over time.

This class of port fetches much lower sums than vintage port, and the producer's reputation is in the second division for that era.

I can't see the level of the wine in the bottle from your photo, but if it is into the neck, and there are no obvious signs of seepage, I'd be happy to offer you £175 for this bottle.

Cheers,

Tom

[Tom D.]

Is it strange there is no bottling year given? What are/were the regulations for mention of bottling year on Colheita labels?

[Jeff G.]

my eyes twitch at the thought of royal oporto colheitas

the hooper 44 colheita bottled in 78 is an example of a colheita that threw a murky brown sediment that you can see towards the bottom of the bottle. Top part was clear, bottom part looked like mud.