Gaia/Douro Cellar Provenance

[Roy Hersh]

What I found on our recent trip to Portugal is that we tasted a great depth of Vintage Ports both young and old, as well from cellars both in Porto/Gaia and in the Douro.

It was interesting to see how ex-cellars bottles behave compared to one's I've had from proper cellars in the UK and across No. America. The old bottles of VP in producers' cellars tend to remain at a high level qualitatively and the incidence of cork taint is as infrequent as what I experience on this side of the pond. What has been your experience overall?

[Derek T.]

My experience of drinking from bottles stored in VNG is that the wines tend to be slightly more mature (than those properly cellared in UK) but invariably of very good quality.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy mature vintages ex-cellars as I think they probably give more certainty of quality than buying on the secondary market and you can probably be assured that you will receive excellent service after your purchase should the wine prove to be faulty in any way.

[Andy Velebil]

...and the incidence of cork taint is as infrequent as what I experience on this side of the pond. What has been your experience overall?

Why would you think it would be any different outside of Gaia/Douro?

[Roy Hersh]

Put simply, a LOT of bottling took place in various other countries directly from cask. Those bottlings are typically stored very differently than the way they are in Gaia, which is even different than what took place up river. But the big picture is bottling in other countries produces different results, Andy.

[Andy Velebil]

Put simply, a LOT of bottling took place in various other countries directly from cask. Those bottlings are typically stored very differently than the way they are in Gaia, which is even different than what took place up river. But the big picture is bottling in other countries produces different results, Andy.

I was only referring to the corked part of your statement, not storage. So, considering most UK bottlers probably got their corks from the same Portuguese cork producers as the Port Producers themselves, I'd venture a guess and empirical evidence points to there not being a noticeable difference. Hence my earlier statement.

As for storage related issues. A tough call, as I've had some fantastic showing bottles ex-cellars, from the UK, and from the States. I've also had very poor showing bottles from the same. Matter of fact, IMO some UK stored bottles are worse off than other places. For the simple reason is the lack of active cooling in the cellars there. All it takes is one super hot spell in the summer for many UK cellars to heat up. In other areas, active cooling is required or in the case of many Gaia cellars they created their own artificial active cooling. So those were less sceptically to larger temp swings. That's not to say UK stored is poor, but IMO it's often times stated has having the best stored cellars around. A blanket statement which can be quite misleading and incorrect at times. I've still found the best overall to be those well stored in Gaia.

[Tom Archer]

At some point, there ought to be a 'grudge match' between UK bottlings and Oporto, with the bottles paired blind..

..I know which side my money would be on..

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Too many factors to generalize one way or another, but I like the idea of Gaia/Douro bottles. Closer to the source.

[Rob C.]

That's not to say UK stored is poor, but IMO it's often times stated has having the best stored cellars around. A blanket statement which can be quite misleading and incorrect at times.

Agreed - not just storage conditions, but with old ports there were so many UK bottlers that there can be a real disparity in the quality of bottling. I haven't had enough to generalise, save that my experience of 60s/1970 port that was bottled (and stored since bottling) by Berry Brothers means that i am usually willing to pay a significant premium to "market price" for those bottles (though not double... which seems more often than not to be the case for G/T/F/D/W).

The bonded warehouse system in the UK usually allows you to track the storage history of a case that has never been removed from bond, so - particularly for ports from the 80s onwards - if you are patient and don't mind paying extra you can often find a case that you know with a good degree of confidence has been stored professionally since shipping in suitable cellar conditions. Obviously buying at auction in the UK can carry a greater degree of risk, but then the price often reflects that! No idea how any of that compares to the US.

I would have anticipated ex-cellars bottles to be the most reliable overall, but i must admit i was quite suprised by the heat of the cellars that i visited in VndG last summer...so would not be suprised if Derek is onto something with his observation that ex-cellars bottles might be more mature than eg: a case stored for a couple of decades deep within the chalk hills of Wiltshire.

Your point re: cork taint is unexpected though - in particular if it also holds true for the post-UK bottling era. I wonder what this could be down to (or is it just the producer popping a new bottle open prior to a tasting if the first one is tainted...!)