Have you ever purchased a vertical of Port?

[Roy Hersh]

Let's say for discussion purposes, at least a half dozen corresponding vintages from the same producer, purchased at one time.

[Rob C.]

No...but let's say Graham's released cases of 2x91, 2x94, 2x97, 2x00, 2x03, and 2x07. I would find that an interesting proposition and can imagine it would sell well.

I do recall seeing a Dow's presentation box of 6 drinkable VPs at one stage.

[Glenn E.]

Let's say for discussion purposes, at least a half dozen corresponding vintages from the same producer, purchased at one time.

I guess that means the Noval package from the FTLOP offer doesn't count because there were only 3 bottles in that. 1994, 2000, and 2003 as I recall... too bad the offer skipped the 1997, I'd have loved to have been able to get some of that direct from the importer!

[Roy Hersh]

I am being offered several very deeeeeep verticals, every vintage of note back to 1963 of Graham's for FTLOP. I am going to see them in person next week. If there is no interest, I may just take a pass on these.

[Glenn E.]

I am being offered several very deeeeeep verticals, every vintage of note back to 1963 of Graham's for FTLOP. I am going to see them in person next week. If there is no interest, I may just take a pass on these.

Well... you didn't ask if there was interest!

I don't know that I could afford a vertical of Graham going back to 1963, but I'd certainly be interested in parts of it or in splitting it with someone.

If I were you'd I'd evaluate the bottles ignoring the fact that they're a vertical. If the selection still looks like something that people might be interested in, then it's a good deal and you should go for it. But I wouldn't attribute much value to the fact that it's a vertical, as we're likely to pick it apart for purchase anyway.

[Tom Archer]

Verticals do get offered from time to time, but unless you are planning a vertical event that fits the offering, I don't feel they have much to offer.

Do you drink a single bottle? - and thereby spoil the vertical - or start with the oldest and work slowly forward? (some logic)

And if you really like a bottle, do you have the pleasure of knowing there's another eleven sitting downstairs, awaiting your attention? - No..

The other downside is that the verticals that do get offered tend to be a cobbled together selection of odd bottles with little or no provenance, and at an inflated price. I was recently offered an incomplete mix of Noval and Nacional bottles that had been assembled for an event that never took place, and the star players (such as NN55) were rough and ullaged specimens.

I estimated that the collection would have sold at auction for about a third of the sum that was being asked by the merchant concerned, and pointed that out to him; however he was clearly of the view that it's collective value was well in excess of its component parts..

..I begged to differ!

Tom

[Marc J.]

I've purchased verticals in the past (Taylor & Graham), but nothing quite as extensive as you indicated might be on the horizon. There is a certain "cool" factor in purchasing VP in a vertical format, but then again there also seems to be some premium pricing involved in purchasing verticals.

[Rob C.]

Verticals do get offered from time to time, but unless you are planning a vertical event that fits the offering, I don't feel they have much to offer.

Do you drink a single bottle? - and thereby spoil the vertical - or start with the oldest and work slowly forward? (some logic)

And if you really like a bottle, do you have the pleasure of knowing there's another eleven sitting downstairs, awaiting your attention? - No..

Tom - i would not have the money to spend on a case of each of G63, G66, G70, G77, G80 and G85 right now. So i would have no problem buying these as part of a mixed case/half case and enjoying them individually. Sounds like very nice drinking on 6 or 12 occasions over the next couple of years! And possibly a better allocation of my resources at this stage than an "all on G66" buying strategy.

The other downside is that the verticals that do get offered tend to be a cobbled together selection of odd bottles with little or no provenance, and at an inflated price.

These are much more valid arguments - but, of course, entirely avoidable depending on who is putting the mixed cases together!

[Russ K]

I would be interested...., a mixed case like that would be nice to have for some of us newbies to have a few drinkers for a mini vertical some night and add some keepers to the collection all at once, as long as the prices are consistent with their condition, and theya re not trying to market it at a premium.

[Roy Hersh]

I inspected all five verticals the other day, in person. They are in fantastic shape with the worst bottles into the base neck and most well into the neck. Not one bottle had ANY seepage whatsoever. Two of over 60 bottles had a v. slight tear on the front label (so what?) and one other botttle's label was slightly discolored. All capsules were fully intact and in perfect condition.

Tom's assertion is way off base here in respect to this collection of bottles:

The other downside is that the verticals that do get offered tend to be a cobbled together selection of odd bottles with little or no provenance,

These were all purchased on release, every bottling except the 1963 and 1966 Graham's which were purchased all together many years ago. The collection began originally with the "purchased on release" 1970 and that trend followed through on every other bottle offered. Provenance is not only assured, but this guy is a well known (for some) winemaker in CA. The bottles stored in his winery's cellar along with the rest of his private stock/collection. He drove the bottles down from his winery so that I could inspect them on Thursday, because I explained what had taken place in our recent sale. I wanted to see these with my own eyes and inspect EVERY single bottle that would be offered.

Still not sure about where he's going with the pricing, but I can say that Glenn's to cherry pick will definitely not be possible. These will only be sold in full vertical lots. If not interested, parties can just more along. I just thought that it would be interesting to have a ready made vertical for people that wanted to buy them outright, or go in with a few people and then have an amazing tasting with bottles that are of known provenance since the day they were born. That is not something you come across very often. Again, this is just an idea for the next buyer's opportunity. I am also being offered a stash of Douro bottles from a good friend that has a pallet to move. So I may do both DOC and Port wines in the upcoming buyer's op. We'll see.

[Tom Archer]

Roy,

Maybe people have different buying habits on your side of the pond, but I'd say your find is the exception, rather than the rule..

Do people buy cases at release, with a view to making verticals a few decades hence? I'm doubtful that it happens very often..

Do merchants buy odd bottles at auction, and then gild their provenance when it comes to selling them on? Yes, it happens all the time..

[Roy Hersh]

We are in agreement there Tom, for sure. Auction houses have their own best interests at heart. Some are very reliable and others are really there to just keep bottles "moving through their system." We also agree that it is quite rare to find people (besides many of us who've put these verticals together over the years as has this collector ... although not purchased as early on) who buy with the intent of doing verticals later on. I know some who do, even here, but that was likely not the intent when they started to buy VP, more of a case that the verticals naturally fill in.

When I made mention that you were off base ... (in my last post) ... I should have added, to be fair ... that your comment was only off base about this particular lot.

[Russ K]

Roy, I am definitely interested, these types of deals are why I bought into the newletter to begin with, and something I likely can not easily replicate if the bottles are good shape. I appreciate your inspection of the condition,
Russ

[craig l]

Answer: No-limited opportunity
Interested: YES!!! sounds great and interesting and also always looking for ways to aquire older more drinkable (agewise)
Craig

[Al B.]

I don't think that I've ever bought a ready made vertical, but if I were the other side of the pond then I'd probably be very interested in this offer given the provenance and inspection report on the bottles.

Despite the fact that I've never bought a ready made vertical, I do have several in my cellar that are made up of bottles bought either ex-cellars or on release and then stored properly since shipment. The most obvious of these are my Vesuvios (supplemented by lots of bottles also bought on the secondary market), but there are others which go back to the 91/92 vintages.

Older than 91/92, I would have to rely on bottles bought on the secondary market. I generally try to buy more than one bottle from a given source so that I can try one and know whether the others need to be drunk up or whether the bottles are in good condition and likely to show well in an offline.

[Tom Archer]

I generally try to buy more than one bottle from a given source so that I can try one and know whether the others need to be drunk up or whether the bottles are in good condition and likely to show well in an offline

Establishing a proven stash - it's a tough job, but someone has to do it..

[Roy Hersh]

I've talked to the owner and he will make these available for FTLOP'ers. I may make these available for anyone, as there are 5 complete verticals and I don't think the subscribers would buy them all. I could certainly have them made available to subscribers first and then open them up to the rest of FTLOP. That said, in this particular case ... I will have zero negotiating power when it comes to the pricing. The owner is pretty sure of himself and the price he wants to sell them for. So, in the newsletter that will be released next week, this will be offered. Thanks for the feedback. It will be interesting to see what the final price asked will be.

[Roy Hersh]

Last I heard two days ago, three of the five complete verticals of Graham's had already been sold. Somebody is very lucky!

[Eric Menchen]

D'oh! I haven't even looked at the newsletter yet.

[Russ K]

well I bit the bullet, a bit more than I wanted to spend, but since Roy put his eyes on them, I guess I feel better paying top dollar for this deal.... I got the last one!
It will be my first 63 and 66 and 70 vintages.... I hope they are in good shape when they get here in the spring!

thanks for finding this opportunity Roy,
Russ